Non Porsche Warranties

[snarf]

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar
If the scheme only covers engine failures to begin with, then I don't believe you get any warning of impending issues that would allow for a moral hazard issue to arise. The main cause of an engine blow-up is a failed IMS, and they tend to just 'go'.

Call me cynical but a means of confirming that the IMS didn't go the day before joining would still be needed.

ORIGINAL: marcus a

Richard, just on the point on total engine failure, a very good friend of mine has had exactly that. A 996 Turbo no less. After going back to Porsche for a replacement cost, Circa £40k

ORIGINAL: owb1
I'm a nice trustworthy bloke and I'd like a spot please.

... need to get my 996 first I suppose but I'm sure we could have a currently topical initiation "ceremony" whereby an independent examination could be arranged prior to joining? Hartech or SportsandClassic could probably oblige in the NW and others around the country could be identified?
Mike

Again call me cynical and no slur intended on the above mentioned organisations but at £40k there is a big incentive to attempt to "persuade" an initiation examiner that all is as it should be.

Sorry for the negative comments (I am a glass half empty type of guy) but I think it is important that these types of issues are addressed early on.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

I think it would be very hard to pull the wool over someone's eyes if your IMS had failed. Start the engine and it will sound like a bag of nails and oil (if there's any left) will pour out.

What might be something worth considering however is if/once the scheme had enough members signed up that they got Porsche or Peter Morgan etc to do a bulk inspection deal on all the cars.

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

Not sure where that £40k figure came from, but a Porsche exchange engine for the Turbo is £15600+VAT. It would have to be a mega-disaster to take that route, as it is more likely that the engine could be rebuilt at significantly less cost. Perhaps TTs and GT3s should be excluded until the scheme had funds enough to support them.

I'll add this to what I've said so far, as it was part of a reply I made to someone who contacted me directly on the subject:

My thought was for a group of members to get together to spread the risk of a total engine failure, because that's why most people take the OPC warranty. By a relatively small group of people getting together it could work fairly easily and efficiently. Also, having had a few years chatting with forum members over the last few years a camaraderie develops, and there are many members who I feel are the right types to co-operate in this way. These people are familiar with each other, they look after their cars properly, and if they had any problems with their engines, we would all know about it because they would have be straight on the forum.

I also believe that if it was posted around the various other Porsche forums there would be a huge interest. It would be a major administrative exercise and you would have no knowledge of the types of people applying to join. In fact, it could probably made into quite a lucrative business, but that wasn't the intention. It would also need to be a legal entity if it got to that stage.

I really wanted to plant the seed, not see it to fruition, as I have enough on my plate right now. I was hoping that someone might pick up the idea and run with it.

 

[John Ware]

If the worst happens, I'm planning on an exchange Autofarm 3.4 with the upgrade mods. £7650+vat (£8988). So far, having not had a warranty for four years, I've paid for almost half of it - less the cost of a MAF and a minor oil leak, all sorted for £notalot by my Indy. Hopefully, I won't need to pay for the rest!

 

[snarf]

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar
I think it would be very hard to pull the wool over someone's eyes if your IMS had failed. Start the engine and it will sound like a bag of nails and oil (if there's any left) will pour out.

Rodney, I don't mean to labour this, but the point I was making is that it would be necessary to employ someone to confirm that the engine didn't sound like a bag of nails.

However, I also understand where Richard is coming from and accept that a small group of individuals known to one another might be able to proceed on the basis of trust.

 

[rob.kellock]

Richard, I think you're right. My car must be very special [].

Given that the failures are relatively rare, it's all the more galling that Porsche didn't offer me some goodwill for a car at 42000 miles with full Porsche service history...

 

[Diesel130]

The idea of a group fund for engine-only replacement is a nice one, but I can't help feeling it could become a legal nightmare unless everything is tied down at the start. What happens if person X wants their car fixed and indi A, yet person Y, wants theirs done at OPC B (at higher cost). Then person Z points out that a recon engine from C is cheaper than from D etc. etc.

The only way I could see this working without tears is if it was administered by a reputable indi who 1) checks the car first, 2) is always used for any replacment engines and c) acts as a 'claims assesor' should the worst happen. Maybe a business opportunity for Wrighttune or similarly, centrally located indi ??

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

ORIGINAL: Diesel130
The idea of a group fund for engine-only replacement is a nice one, but I can't help feeling it could become a legal nightmare unless everything is tied down at the start. What happens if person X wants their car fixed and indi A, yet person Y, wants theirs done at OPC B (at higher cost). Then person Z points out that a recon engine from C is cheaper than from D etc. etc.

Yes, it needs to be tied down from the start - perhaps a claim limit of £8000 to begin with. That would give someone the opportunity to choose what they want done, and where - be it a Porsche exchange engine at an indy or OPC, or a Hartech or Autofarm rebuild.

The only way I could see this working without tears is if it was administered by a reputable indi who 1) checks the car first, 2) is always used for any replacment engines and c) acts as a 'claims assesor' should the worst happen. Maybe a business opportunity for Wrighttune or similarly, centrally located indi ??

There have been 10 contributors to this thread with 'standard' 996 engines. If those 10 said they would take a place in the scheme, IMO they could all be trusted to join without any inspection. We all know these cars and owners, and know they are cared for properly. The whole thing would be based on trust, and each would have to understand the implications of the worst case scenario of the scheme - two failures in year one. The proposal is to spread the risk - but it isn't a guarantee.

 

[Steve777]

It's a great idea Richard and i would be very interested in a scheme like this. We could also say repairs under £100 are not included to stop overloading the club with lots of claims. i.e. for things like coil packs etc

We still haven't got a list of potential third party warranties though

Steve

 

[jukn]

Well wayed up all the pros and cons and still decided to go with warranty works. RE the questions which were raised about it earlier on the forum, some investigation reveals:
a) wouldn't replace the engine etc but £2500k would help towards the cost rather than no warranty at all and hopefully porsche is relatively reliable and this doesn't happen too often(?)
b) No hassle getting book stamped at the same time as the service book stamped.
c) policy wording allows for leeway on service being carried out both mileage and date(the booklet is now available to download)
d) opc newcastle charge £54.00 plus vat per hours labour for cars 7 yrs old or over and the warranty company are happy for you to pay the top up to use the garage of your choice.
e) guess the investigation cost applies to most warranties
All warranties taken are risk limitation so nothing will be infallible, for me i think this provides some peace of mind for most occurrences although i accept its not foolproof. Unless someone can suggest a better deal at a reasonable cost in the North East then i guess this is the answer for me.

Did raise the question of the cost of the new warranty at our last R3 meet where OPC was represented and they said it was £1100 for 996 and boxsters to renew but no doubt the figure given on this forum constitutes the cost of something else added in - the 111 point check maybe?

 

[Diesel130]

Julie ... well done for looking into those points. I'm not generally a sceptical person, but have had fingers burnt with 3rd party warranties before. I hope it all works out OK - do report back how it pans out, as it would be good to find out if there are reputable insurers out there.

Re the warranty price - from what I have gleaned elsewhere, the price is 1350 GBP. This comprises, 1150 for the warranty (no VAT) and 172ish+VAT for the inspection. It seems that some OPCs have already started discounting the inspection element, or even absorbing the cost of that themselves - hence with shopping around it _should_ be possible to get it for 1150. However, that still doesn't eliminate the issue highlighted in another thread I started about them excluding any self or 3rd party maintenance.