Oil leak............again and again

[Richard_Hamilton]

Even though it was expensive, let's hope it is an end to the leak, and you have some peace of mind with the ceramic bearing.

They don't seem to have been the problem, but the bolts I showed in my earlier post don't seem to have been changed in your first photo.

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Personally I would have not gone down the ceramic bearing route - too much smoke and mirrors (not to mention cost).

 

[markrwadsworth]

Rich,

The bolts were replaced this time and I can only assume they were the last?

With regards the upgrade being expensive, yes you are right but there was an amount of play with the existing one. I'd rather be safe than sorry and have added peace of mind. Also, the next owner, if she has one, will also have the same.....

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Unfortunately the ceramic bearing is limited life and they seem very vague about numbers fitted and more importantly, numbers that fail. A new standard bearing has a real advantage but your money and your call. Personally I would avoid a car with a ceramic bearing based on my first comments in this post.

 

[markrwadsworth]

A lot of research was carried out beforehand and ultimately I'm happy with the decision. I have a more robust bearing and cover around 4k a year. Each to their own I suppose.

We shall see, if anything else comes of it I'll let you know!

 

[thirteeneast]

ORIGINAL: Chris_in_the_UK

Unfortunately the ceramic bearing is limited life and they seem very vague about numbers fitted and more importantly, numbers that fail. A new standard bearing has a real advantage but your money and your call. Personally I would avoid a car with a ceramic bearing based on my first comments in this post.

Can you tell me the real advantage of a steel bearing opposed to a Ceramic then, because Ceramic is much harder than steel and Ceramic bearings typically last much much longer than steel?.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

For whatever reason LN have lifed these bearings. It may be that the bearings are better than the steels but they want to cover their backs. It may be they've tested them and they don't last as long as the steels. We don't know.
The steel OEM items fail at a rate of less than 5% (plenty of data to support this), and anecdotally if they don't fail early on they're less likely to fail.

So that's the choice you're given.

 

[thirteeneast]

Knowing LN we will see them for sale once they have cleared their stock of steel bearings.

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Advantages?

Cost is the big one and no associated 'smoke and mirrors'. I am always suspicious of scaremongering and associated solutions from those who have a vested interest and the perfect product to fix it.

As regards the life of the ceramic 'solution' - it's not a true lifetime part and it is VERY conditional in it's claims:-

Service interval recommendations are valid only with use of Joe Gibbs BR break in oil during the new IMS bearing break-in period of 200-400 miles along with use of an LN Engineering Spin-On Oil Filter Adapter with subsequent oil changes at 6 months or 5,000 miles using Joe Gibbs DT40.

As I said earlier - personal choice but personally I would avoid a car fitted with one.

 

[thirteeneast]

But buying a second hand car with a ceramic bearing already fitted you wouldn't be paying for it?

Therefore I fail to see why anyone would walk away from a car fitted with a Ceramic Bearing anyone knows ceramic is harder than steel and everyone has fallen foul to 996 scaremongering.

Of course if you have a spin on oil filter adapter from (LN Engineering) your car will never break.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Goes back to my point. The part is lifed. So you buy a used car with an LN bearing with say 1,000 miles left on the clock.
Do you bin it at the end of its life (thus paying for it again and the silly service/break in requirements) or just assume it'll go on forever - which the company itself does not claim.

 

[thirteeneast]

And that would be falling foul to scaremongering mindset.

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar

Goes back to my point. The part is lifed. So you buy a used car with an LN bearing with say 1,000 miles left on the clock.
Do you bin it at the end of its life (thus paying for it again and the silly service/break in requirements) or just assume it'll go on forever - which the company itself does not claim.

The original bearing was lifed - the majority remain perfectly serviceable.

 

[Motorhead]

Thankfully, my DFI-engined Cayman isn't affected but the whole RMS/IMS issue and it's engineering solutions are of interest to me. Like Richard H, I think that immersing a sealed bearing in engine oil is asking for trouble but I'm sure Porsche had their reasons. From memory, I believe that the air-cooled and Mezger engines used the same arrangement, but they were proper dry-sumped engines which avoided [total?] immersion of the bearing, and the IMS set-up allowed Porsche to use identical left and right-hand cylinder blocks to reduce costs. I presume that a ball-race bearing is used to take the end thrust, the other IMS bearing being just a plain bearing lubricated by engine oil, so why Porsche didn't use pressure lubrication for the front bearing is a mystery to me and note that this is one after-market solution.

Here's an interesting summary from a The Popular Mechanic tech day on the subject:

http://www.thepopularmechanic.com/PorscheIMSOptions.html

Note that with the exception of the direct oil feed solutions, all the other solutions were considered to be "lifed", but I would consider any part of an engine to come under this category. After all, Porsche only warranted a new 9x6 for 2-years [or 40,000 miles?] back then. I just hope that Mark's solution gives him long-term reliability and confidence to drive his car without concern over the issue.

Jeff

 

[thirteeneast]

http://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/869599-ln-engineering-ceramic-ims-bearing-failure-at-30k-miles.html

That might pan out interesting? Looks to me like because as I said Ceramic is so hard its worn out the race.

I personally reckon all the bearings come from China at a $$$ mark up because they cost pennies.

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

I would not assume that it would last forever - the post above being indicative.

I have no real confidence in the 'solution' that the ceramic bearing is claiming to be offering - personally I think using one as an IMS bearing is the wrong application for that design of bearing (personal 'old engineer's' view). Because of this I would not buy a car fitted with one as it provides no piece of mind to me whatsoever, in fact less so than a car with a conventional bearing.

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar

Goes back to my point. The part is lifed. So you buy a used car with an LN bearing with say 1,000 miles left on the clock.
Do you bin it at the end of its life (thus paying for it again and the silly service/break in requirements) or just assume it'll go on forever - which the company itself does not claim.

 

[markrwadsworth]

Chris,

The bearing needed to be replaced so I took the decision to go for a the ceramic option from LN on the advice of DoveHouse who have seen bearing failure. They have also fitted a number of the LN bearings. I trust them, it is what I pay them for. If the original bearing is a servicable part then I agree that the LN bearing should also be servicable.

If it is at 40k then I have no issue. The car does around 3k per year so I have another 13 years before I need to worry about it. You obviously don't like the solution, I myself am happy with it, as are a number of other people.

Each to their own.

 

[thirteeneast]

But there is no confidence in any is there?
no proven or disproved part?.
As for bearing type application surely roller would have been more appropriate, But Ive not made my own bearing and cashed in yet.

LN bearing submission is a serviceable part @50k
But there's cars with three times that on the OEM bearings?

So many companies have cashed in on the scaremongering and the few mis fortunate 5% engines that have gone pop.
Yet I have never heard a company/ Garage making diagnoses based on un questionable results from bearing harmonics and vibration tests?.

We have retrofit bearing suppliers that come up with numerous after market bearings? well that doesn't give me much faith in there products and obviously neither do they.

All I see is ££££...

All we have to thank these companies for is a massive depreciation in the price of 996's and lots and lots of Internet forum Bandwidth traffic.



Still could be worse, could have a LOTUS badge on it.

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Hi Mark - I was not being critical of your situation or ultimate choice, more about the whole issue in general.

The whole ceramic bearing thing has smacked of 'snake oil' from day one to me and clearly I might be in a minority but then I have no vested interest in selling or fitting them and any opinions I have make no money for me. Since there are no failure stats that could be considered impartial for the ceramic bearings I think your prediction is optimistic to say the least.

Hope it last many years sir - just drive and enjoy!.

ORIGINAL: markrwadsworth

Chris,

The bearing needed to be replaced so I took the decision to go for a the ceramic option from LN on the advice of DoveHouse who have seen bearing failure. They have also fitted a number of the LN bearings. I trust them, it is what I pay them for. If the original bearing is a servicable part then I agree that the LN bearing should also be servicable.

If it is at 40k then I have no issue. The car does around 3k per year so I have another 13 years before I need to worry about it. You obviously don't like the solution, I myself am happy with it, as are a number of other people.

Each to their own.

 

[PDS2272]

Morning guys ,

really interesting thread, just ordered the bolts as recommended !

top tip , thanks