Paint on 997's - care and maintenance

[KXJ 911Turbo]

All,
I have always stressed on the paintwork on my car, which seems "soft". It scratches when you look at it, and even with the Supaguard treatment I had when purchasing from OPC it has swirl marks.....and I have not been cleaning it with a brillo pad in case anyone is wondering. Significant investment in microfibre cloths does not appear to have given me the return I wanted. The Supaguard has been a disappointment as well....So....

a) what is the consensus view on car detailing....is it really good for swirl removal?

b) what is the consensus view on the waxes/glazes that are applied to the paint? Will it stop (or slow down) the hologramming?

Thanks ahead,
KXJ

 

[Ekona]

Supaguard isn't worth a cup of cold urine.

If you want to remove the swirls and holograms, then you'll be able to do it with a machine and the right combination of pad and product. Without seeing the damage it's hard to gauge what you'll need to do, however as a pretty much fool proof method for the absolute beginner a DA machine plus a regular polishing pad (manufacturer won't make much difference at this point) plus a fairly safe compound like Megs UC will allow you to remove most of the swirls yourself. You may not get them all, you may not do too much to removing all the holograms, but it's pretty much impossible to do any further damage either.

Waxes/glazes/sealants etc are purely for protection. They will add a final extra bit of gloss to a decent finish, but if you don't get the paint looking shiny before you put it on, then nothing will make it better afterwards. You may want to try something like a glaze with fillers, which can improve the appearance of swirls, but ultimately you need to deal with them.


Of course, you could just pay someone to do it all for you, but it's much more satisfying to do it yourself

 

[tscaptain]

a) Given the right detailer, then yes!

b) I have tried Supaguard, Lifeshine (well, 6 month shine anyway) and various other stuff. If the paintwork is prepared properly before the wax is applied then it should improve matters. That said, I am about to have mine done with Gtechniq C1, which gets good reviews and is supposed to last a lot longer. B***** expensive to have done but hopefully will last a lot longer than the other stuff. Not for the DIYer, I understand, unless you are very good/brave[]

http://gtechniqna.com/exterior-coatings/crystal-lacquer/

 

[CLIFFWILKINS]

Swirls marring of modern day water based paints are common.
As you say only got to look at it and it marks.
Most of these are normal everday occurance but can be kept to a minimum by your washing method this is where they are coming from.Never wipe a car over when dusty either.

Washing first off make sure you have the right equipment.

A lambs wool mitt or a noodle micro fibre mitt kept in a clean condition after each use. (No Sponges from the garden shed.)
2 bucket method or use a grit guard in the bucket so the grit falls
to the bottom after running your mitt across the grit guard.
A nice Ph balance shampoo (NO Washing up liquid)
Drying use a synthetic cloth or plush drying towel (No real leathers)
These items are the basics for washing with the right tools.

So onto washing.
Power wash any loose dirt off first or use a hose.
Snow foam the car if wanted and allow 5 mins to dwell power wash off.
using your Ph balanced shampoo lambs wool mitt or noodle grit guard bucket or 2 bucket method proceed to wash from top to bottom. I use a separate mitt just for the very bottoms and wheels. Once happy power wash or hose off which ever you have then.Take your plush drying towel and pat dry as much as possible.
Or drag lightly in straight lines.
Just a few little tips for washing to keep swirls marring to a minimum.
Cliff

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

a) Given the right detailer, then yes!

b) I have tried Supaguard, Lifeshine (well, 6 month shine anyway) and various other stuff. If the paintwork is prepared properly before the wax is applied then it should improve matters. That said, I am about to have mine done with Gtechniq C1, which gets good reviews and is supposed to last a lot longer. B***** expensive to have done but hopefully will last a lot longer than the other stuff. Not for the DIYer, I understand, unless you are very good/brave[]

http://gtechniqna.com/exterior-coatings/crystal-lacquer/

That's what currently on my car and I was very pleased with the results,
Just last week I had a scheduled service on the paintwork! (it was a freebie []) and 6 months on the car has very light swirling apparently [&:]
I was pleased with the results considering it is over a paintshield and I'm not exactly the best car cleaner...

I've done the majority of what Cliff has suggested to try and avoid the swirls as much as possible.
I always thought the Meteor Grey on my 997 hid the swirls quite well

 

[Gordon Attar]

Follow Chris's rules on Washing to reduce the swirls to a to a minimum a water softener on the hose pipe outlet would help as well as it makes drying easier(less drag) and no limescale particles that could be dragged across when washing drying.

Regarding machine polishing, if you havent done it before dont attempt to pay someone else, as it will introduce swirls if you dont use a 2/3 stage system(depends on quantity and depth of scratches) its the middle stage that leaves the swirls and the last one plus your polish that takes them out, you could damage your paintwork especially around edges reasonably easily. Its the first stage compound that can do the main damage which is a cutter that is required to get the scratches basically out of your lacquer. Watch out for some oil based systems as they can camouflage lighter scratches which will therefore return over time

If you have the time, (it will take a day) and the scratches are just surface ones and the inclination to try something yourself I would go go clay bar, cleanser and very good white carnaubu wax. Im old school Zymol user and there could be better stuff around nowadays have a look at the detailing forums.

Alternatively the easier way is to get someone to do it for you initially and then you do the 6 monthly refresh. I dont understand how anyone needs a week to detail a car even doing all nooks, taking wheels off, light out etc. Many years ago I had the body of my old 993 TT done by a Zymol guy in a day and it was well worth the £300, I got the kit cheap of him and did myself afterwards. So 2 days to do a car inside and out should be enough and it needs to be a system you can maintain also post in the concours/detailing PCGB forum you will get a number of recommendations

 

[waxman]

From a purely amateur view I have struggled with the swirl marks in my black GTS although I religiously follow the sort of regime cliff advocates including dropping the wash mit and micro fibre towels into the washing machine after every car wash, fitting a water softener etc.
My car cover leaves swirls and I have tried non mechanical Swissvax products and meguires clay bars without much success -after speaking to their tech guys I tried the meguires SwirlX their least aggressive swirl remover and for me this did a great job and removed the swirls in the clear coat and I am assured it does not remove a damaging amount of clear coat. Top this up with some Swissvax Zuffenhausen wax and seems to do the trick - the Zuffenhausen wax has been good and lasted a long time but at over £110 a tub I think personally I will try some meguires alternative when it runs out this summer.
Someone with more detailing experience may not like this product but it. Has worked for me
Tony

 

[pwebb]

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

a) Given the right detailer, then yes!

b) I have tried Supaguard, Lifeshine (well, 6 month shine anyway) and various other stuff. If the paintwork is prepared properly before the wax is applied then it should improve matters. That said, I am about to have mine done with Gtechniq C1, which gets good reviews and is supposed to last a lot longer. B***** expensive to have done but hopefully will last a lot longer than the other stuff. Not for the DIYer, I understand, unless you are very good/brave[]

http://gtechniqna.com/exterior-coatings/crystal-lacquer/

Like you, Alan, I tried various lotions and potions over the years and have shelves full of stuff. However I bit the bullet and had the 991 given the GTechniq C1 treatment from new. This involved a day of machine and hand preparation and explains why C1 is only available from an authorised detailer. However the cost is no more than finishing with other waxws, it's just much more durable imo. I asked to have the car 'topped up' after a year but to be honest it didn't really need it, water still sheeted off nicely. I understand that C1 is now topped up with their newest product, EXO, to make the durability even better.

I do miss, in a masochistic way, doing all the clay, polish, wax treatments but salve that when the kids come home in their unclean motors[]

 

[waxman]

Peter
I can always bring mine around to you if you are getting withdrawal symptoms[]

 

[Clewsey]

ORIGINAL: pwebb

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

a) Given the right detailer, then yes!

b) I have tried Supaguard, Lifeshine (well, 6 month shine anyway) and various other stuff. If the paintwork is prepared properly before the wax is applied then it should improve matters. That said, I am about to have mine done with Gtechniq C1, which gets good reviews and is supposed to last a lot longer. B***** expensive to have done but hopefully will last a lot longer than the other stuff. Not for the DIYer, I understand, unless you are very good/brave[]

http://gtechniqna.com/exterior-coatings/crystal-lacquer/

Like you, Alan, I tried various lotions and potions over the years and have shelves full of stuff. However I bit the bullet and had the 991 given the GTechniq C1 treatment from new. This involved a day of machine and hand preparation and explains why C1 is only available from an authorised detailer. However the cost is no more than finishing with other waxws, it's just much more durable imo. I asked to have the car 'topped up' after a year but to be honest it didn't really need it, water still sheeted off nicely. I understand that C1 is now topped up with their newest product, EXO, to make the durability even better.

I do miss, in a masochistic way, doing all the clay, polish, wax treatments but salve that when the kids come home in their unclean motors[]

Also a fan and user of Gtechniq. Louise's black 3 series (now 2 years old) looks like new inside and out when washed. One thing not mentioned is how easy it is to clean it. It takes half the time than when I wash my 911 which is Swissvax based. As Pete says, having C1 applied does require the car to be spot on in terms of any correction (seems obvious) but may well increase the cost somewhat if you car isn't in new car condition. However, in my opinion having used Swissvax, Zymol previously, GTechniq is the best finish and most durable in my opinion.

 

[KXJ 911Turbo]

Thanks to all comments which are incredibly useful and v interesting reading. I have been following your advice Cliff, but seems that it still wants to swirl. The one positive side is that I did find a wax for the alloys which is a dream, as the brake dust just rinses away.

There is absolutely no way I have the skills or patience to undertake this myself. I do find some comfort in knowing that it is not just me, but I will be investigating the Gtechniq route. I have noted that most professional detailers have their own biases....presume I can spec' Gtechniq or go for an approved applier?

KXJ

 

[wolfy689]

Hi

Just out of curiosity what is the make of the rim wax sounds interesting never heard of this before[&:]

Cheers JP

 

[tscaptain]

ORIGINAL: KXJ 911Turbo
....presume I can spec' Gtechniq or go for an approved applier?

KXJ

I think you need to go for an approved applier as not many detailers will use it, Google is your friend in this matter...[]

 

[Clewsey]

I had mine done directly at GTechniq's base but I'd give them a call (I think it was Peter who I spoke to)
who was very helpful and I'm sure he could recommend a very good detailer in your vicinity. Prices do vary considerably now I find for this though as more people want it.

To give you a rough idea, the BMW was £400 for the exterior, interior and wheels to be done with a very minor stage 1 polish (this car was brand new). Depending on how granular they are with their charging you'd be certainly be looking at £600 approx for a car that needs more paintwork correction. Some will charge for everything , some others will include bits so worth checking this.

All will be well worth it though I can assure you.

Cheers!

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

C1 is available to buy for self application.

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

ORIGINAL: KXJ 911Turbo
....presume I can spec' Gtechniq or go for an approved applier?

KXJ

I think you need to go for an approved applier as not many detailers will use it, Google is your friend in this matter...[]

 

[Clewsey]

ORIGINAL: Chris_in_the_UK

C1 is available to buy for self application.

ORIGINAL: tscaptain

ORIGINAL: KXJ 911Turbo
....presume I can spec' Gtechniq or go for an approved applier?

KXJ

I think you need to go for an approved applier as not many detailers will use it, Google is your friend in this matter...[]

If you know what you are doing......

 

[lowndes]

I have just had G Techniq applied as part of a detail on a new car. Although Paul the detailer had come prepared for paint correction, I had been lucky and none was needed. Agate of course being the sensible choice of the discerning motorist. []

Now I realise some of you out there are talented concours guys but I do not count myself amongst your number. The car is lucky to get a fortnightly spray with a power washer.

But having watched the preparation,care, skill and concentration that are needed to apply the few cc's of G Techniq liquid, which are all that is required to do the whole car, there is no way I would try it at home. For one thing the G Techniq finish dries to a glass like hardness so removing bits that went wrong could be a nightmare.

To put the effort needed into perspective, an inside and out detail of a showroom clean car took 7 hours of which the majority were applying a few drops of G Techniq.

Tip from Paul. A good way to check the quality of paint/ extent of orange peel is to view the reflection of an overhead neon strip light.

This is shiny enough for me:

Cheers

Nick

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

What could possibly go wrong.....? [8|]

ORIGINAL: Clewsey

If you know what you are doing......

 

[ralphmusic]

The Werkstat acrylic sealant system is perhaps easier for DIY application than Gtechniq products. The Gtechniq C5 Wheel Armour can be easily applied (although I had it done by OPC Exeter after wheels power coated and before tyres mounted).

 

[KXJ 911Turbo]

So this might lie outside the rules and regs of the forum....but I have dialled 4 detailers this morning to discuss GTechniq and would you believe that I have not had a single one pick up. I also range GTechniq direct who don't actually do any detailing, but only distribute product.

So....who is "Peter" and where - for an R21 club member - is the best place for me to go on this?

Thanks and apologies if not correct and proper forum etiquette.....

KXJ