Pictures of GAZ

[Neil Haughey]

A few of you guys have now asked to see some closeups of the GAZ 2-ways so I went outside today and took a series of pictures for your viewing enjoyment. Hopefully these will answer any questions but if any of you guys want to see a closeup of any other areas for more detail please ask.

First lets start with the back end.

This next picture shows the 2 offset rose joints talked about recently

The hose at the bottom end of the rears..

and the other side

next the damper body and rod

The top of the rears

and lastly a closeup of the reservoir for the rears with the adjuster

Ta, next post will be the fronts.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Now for the fronts, quite a bit more to take in here so several pictures around the bottom of the strut.

First lets see the complete assembly

Now a few pictures around the 2 bolt locations onto the hub, note the built in camber adjuster and how it works by running on a tab welded to the strut body.

Next lets look at the top retainer

and the strut body showing the suitably beefy bump stop

further down the body showing the threads and adjuster

Lastly a picture of me holding the reservoir for the fronts, unsurprisingly it looks identical to the rear ones.

 

[Peter Empson]

Oooh shiny []
Looks great Neil, can I ask what the going price is for this setup?

 

[Neil Haughey]

Roughly £1250, ISTR very little difference between Abshocks and EMC but if bought from EMC you can of course get the spring and damper valving set they developed on the race cars they supported. The setup I have on mine is more a fast road setup, I may well need a revalve and stiffer springs for racing.

 

[pauly]

Very nice, do they come with a base setting or do you set the bump/rebound up by trial and error, also looks very much like a mk 1 golf for setting the camber.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Bit of both really. They came valved to suit the spring rate, mass and layout of the car. Which of the compression and rebound settings you go for from then you are on your own unless of course you buy from EMC and ask for them to set them. Personally I prefer it this way as I start with front and rear full soft and adjust from there. The shocks where certainly not preset to any specific settings as they all had different numbers of clicks to return to full soft.

One other thing to note. There is a lot of clicks of adjustment so I will definitely be writing the settings down as we adjust.

 

[333pg333]

Looking nice there Neil. One question and forgive my ignorance but is the dial adj bump or rebound? I'm assuming bump.
So if you order these do they ask for your car's weight and what purpose you intend using it for? Then do they issue springs and valving commensurate to these details? What spring rate are yours?

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

Looking nice there Neil. One question and forgive my ignorance but is the dial adj bump or rebound? I'm assuming bump.
So if you order these do they ask for your car's weight and what purpose you intend using it for? Then do they issue springs and valving commensurate to these details? What spring rate are yours?

Yes + Yes as far as I know the adjuster on the reservoir is for rebound, to be honest I never asked and have assumed its this way round, I will check on their website. The shocks are designed for the 944 despite of course not having ABS and duct mounts on the struts. The springs and valving where designed for my application which I stated as being a race prepped car I can still use on the road, as such the fronts are 400 lb/inch and the rear helpers 225 lb/inch. I have 27 mm rear torsion bars already so I should get a total on the back around 360 lb/inch. This should be pretty close to perfect for me but is a tad soft for racing, we will see how it goes but their turnaround for a re-valve is pretty quick so it would be an easy winter job. Interesting thing is Dave at Abshocks who I got them through supplies the MX-5's that race in a series here, he tells me those guys love the GAZ and are managing to ride the kerbs even with 500 lb/inch springs on a tiny little car.

 

[berg944]

Don't know about these shocks but,

all the gas reservoir shocks I have had have been compression adjustment on the cannister and rebound on the main body.

Mike[:'(]

 

[TTM]

I will be interested to see where you will put the reservoirs for the rears.

 

[pauly]

ORIGINAL: berg944

Don't know about these shocks but,

all the gas reservoir shocks I have had have been compression adjustment on the cannister and rebound on the main body.

Mike[:'(]

Same for the ohlins shock I had on my bike.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: TTM

I will be interested to see where you will put the reservoirs for the rears.

As its a race shell inboard in the rear seat location.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: pauly

ORIGINAL: berg944

Don't know about these shocks but,

all the gas reservoir shocks I have had have been compression adjustment on the cannister and rebound on the main body.

Mike[:'(]

Same for the ohlins shock I had on my bike.

You know thinking about it I must have been very tired last night and confused myself in response to the question. Given that the reservoir is a gas charge which I have assumed is that same idea on other shocks of this type I assume you guys are correct. Thing is I can't find the info for these shocks anywhere on the net and they don't come with any instructions, just a big box, a pair of C spanners and some GAZ stickers.

 

[333pg333]

he

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

Looking nice there Neil. One question and forgive my ignorance but is the dial adj bump or rebound? I'm assuming bump.
So if you order these do they ask for your car's weight and what purpose you intend using it for? Then do they issue springs and valving commensurate to these details? What spring rate are yours?

Yes + Yes as far as I know the adjuster on the reservoir is for rebound, to be honest I never asked and have assumed its this way round, I will check on their website. The shocks are designed for the 944 despite of course not having ABS and duct mounts on the struts. The springs and valving where designed for my application which I stated as being a race prepped car I can still use on the road, as such the fronts are 400 lb/inch and the rear helpers 225 lb/inch. I have 27 mm rear torsion bars already so I should get a total on the back around 360 lb/inch. This should be pretty close to perfect for me but is a tad soft for racing, we will see how it goes but their turnaround for a re-valve is pretty quick so it would be an easy winter job. Interesting thing is Dave at Abshocks who I got them through supplies the MX-5's that race in a series here, he tells me those guys love the GAZ and are managing to ride the kerbs even with 500 lb/inch springs on a tiny little car.

I am pretty sure that the rears will work out at a higher effective rate than 360lbs. I don't have the formula at work but I'd be thinking substantially more, but then again I don't really understand the whole 'Effective' rate concept. All I know is it's not just a matter of adding the 2 spring rates together.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ISTR the formula on Paragon Products gives me;
(225 x 0.56) + 220 = 347 lb/inch effective on the rear

A little less then the (225 x 0.6) + 225 = 360 which I calculated using some old rule of thumb conversion of 0.6 and 27 mm torsion bar = 225 lb/inch. Not much difference really.

http://www.tech-session.com/kb/index.php?article=39

 

[Peter Empson]

Excellent link Neil, thanks.

 

[333pg333]

Actually according to Karl from Racer's Edge, he gave that info to Paragon and his calculations worked out differently than those you've figured Neil. Again I'm at work although I've posted the email I have from him here previously. I'm sure your rates would come out more than 360lb/in using his formula. I don't really know how to search effectively in here so I'll send myself a note to remind me to check into it when I get home.

 

[333pg333]

Ok here you go Neil. Forgive me to the others that have read this before, but still a useful item to copy and paste/save somewhere.

From Karl Poeltl aka Racer's Edge who has campaigned many front engined cars in the US and would know what he's talking about. This was in reply to someone who had given me some different numbers when I was trying to calculate my rates when I ordered the KWs.

"Patrick I have not spoken with Bob, and actually don't know who he is, but believe me, my numbers correct (or very close to it - see the following explanation). The info on Paragon's site is stuff they got from me a few years ago. In any case, the 47% is a number that I have calculated by taking measurements. I am now pulling out one of Porsche's own Motorsport sheets that shows all the rates of their Turbo and "Cup" cars back when they ran competitively. Porsche lists the 25.5 mm bar as 31 N/mm which is 177 lbs/in. They also then give the variable rate coilover helper spring rates at 34-65 N/mm which is 194 lb/in - 371 lb/in. They then give the total Rate at the wheel(T-bar plus coilover) as 45.4 - 58.5. Back out the rate at the wheel due to torsion bar which they list as 31 and you have 14.4 - 27.5 at the wheel due to the coil over. So take your pick, 14.4 / 34 is approx 42% or 27.5/65 is 42%. Bob is right about them being inboard but his numbers are off. Actually they are correct, I think in that the motion ratio is about 65%, but when calculating wheel rates from spring rates it is the motion ratio squared that is used. So 0.65 ^2 is , guess what,... 42.25% which is the number that Porsche's own sheet claims as I outlined above. So your torsion bar is 177 at the wheel, and your helper spring rate is a 285 which is 119.7 lb/in at the wheel. So working backwards 177 plus 119.7 is 296.7 pounds per inch at the wheel. Divide this by .42 and that is you equivalent coilover, or 706 lb/in coilover (initially I had 661 lb/in which is attributable to my measurement error - I had 47% and Porsche lists it at 42%). So it may be a bit stiffer in the rear than I might run but with the ability to tune sway bars etc... you should be Fine. Your setup is actually much stiffer in the front than the Porsche cup setup which ran progressive front springs (200 - 371 lb/in) with the rear setup I desribed above which is not that far from what you have( yours is 296 at the wheel and theirs was 259 - 334 lbs/in at the wheel). Hope this make sense, but believe me, what is above is 100% correct. I can fax you the Porsche motorsport sheet if you think it will help.

regards

Karl"

 

[Neil Haughey]

So by that calculation even less, however a 400 lb/inch spring on the front doesn't give an effective 400 lb/inch either perhaps the 0.56 figure has stuck because it balances with the front? Anyways at the moment I have 190 to 220 lb progressive springs and 220 lb torsion bars and the overall setup is a little to much towards oversteer (rear ARB always on bottom setting). The great thing is with standard coil springs I can very cheaply and easily get different rate springs and try them out prior to getting a final setup and then getting the valving set perfectly for that rate.

 

[333pg333]

Well I've got 50N coils and the 25.5mm Torsion bar and he gives me a rate of 708lb/in effective coilover so that's why I had you at something higher than 360lb/in?