Pirelli P Zero's - Again!

[MrDemon]

I have read Porsche's webpage on 'approved' tyres. But, I will perhaps show my ignorance by asking this question:

What does the N0, N1.......N6 actually signify? What differnces would I be likely to find?

the P zero is a old tyre and they love the name so back in the day the 1st tyre was the N0 for Porsche a few years later the N1 etc etc the higher the number the more modern the tyre.

N spec is of course bullshit as they also fit Dunlops and 3 other brands of tyre all N spec, so you cannot say N spec is best as I would take a non N spec PS$S over an N spec Dunlop every time. as for N0 P zero one of the worst tyres ever made imo.

 

[sandbar]

That link to the Porsche site does not read any better this time round. It just seems to me that it is a glorified box-ticking exercise. IMHO, it seems a bit like the Porsche approved oils situation.

The only tangible advantage would appear to be if you are wanting to sell your car, because there are obviously people to whom the N? mark on tyres is important and for them it would be a good sales point.

Just my 2p worth!

sandbar

 

[PJ1200]

There is lots of threads (on various car forums) in relation to 'N' spec tyres. Lots of dividing views on how good they are (compared to other non-N spec tyres) and whether they are really required for warranty/selling purposes. As with many things, it is a choice.

The 'N-spec' is basically tyres that Porsche approve. These are supposed to have gone through some vigorous testing, perhaps had minor changes to the tread etc, and now perform perfectly with the Porsche range. Scientific benefit or marketing gimmick - you decide! As the tyres get improved the number increases - so N0 is the first iteration, N1 the next etc. Currently the P-Zeros are N1 on their latest spec.

The issue comes in relation to the perceived impact on any OPC warranty you have. It gets vague here, but basically you 'could' be invalidating your warranty by running non N-spec tyres on your pride and joy. Many will cite examples of when this has not been the case, and I suspect if you had a faulty motor on the rear spoiler, Porsche would be hard pushed to refuse replacement under warranty because you were running YingYangDitchFinders. Alas, many of us with warranty do not want to deal with the unnecessary hassle.

Personally, I'd go for the Michelin PS4s if I had the choice. I've always been a fan of the brand and the tyres and they are wildly regarded as the best for most performance cars. Unfortunately, until recently, on the very old PS2s could be had with 'N-spec'. It appears that the long promised (I've seen emails back over 18-24 months old!) PS4s are going to be approved by Porsche in N0 spec. Exciting times, I'm sure you'll all agree

You pay your money, you take your choice. Hopefully the above provides a bit of clarity.

PJ

 

[sandbar]

I think in my life I must have tried the Yingyang Ditchfinders. They didn't even wear well!![]

The warranty issue is, IMHO, a scandal. The whole idea that a claim might be refused because a non-Porsche approved tyre has been used is ridiculous. If the tyre (or in the case of oil - the oil) is up to the required specification then I thought that legally it was not allowed to affect any warranty, expressed or implied. In the same way that having a service done by an independent should not affect the warranty, as long as the service is done to the required standard and parts to the manufacturers OE standard are used.

It is a shame that the UK seem incapable of giving the manufacturers the same kind of grief that they get in the USA. We let them get away with far too much in this country. Not quite the same thing, but in the bike world, BMW North America recently had to do something about a part that they had fitted on some 2005 - 2013 model year bikes which had been consistently failing. In August 2014, BMW NA were persuaded (forced?) to extend the warranty on that part to 12 years with unlimited mileage. Not only that, all the owners who had paid to have the part replaced by a BMW dealer after their bikes were outside the normal warranty would have their money refunded in full and and those who had used an independent repair facility (as they quaintly termed it) would also have the cost of the part refunded but not the labour. I have a copy of the letter that BMWNA sent out. When BMW UK were informed about (and shown) the letter, they effectively just said "Nothing to do with us - go away!"

By the way, just in case anybody thinks that I am just a Johnny-come-lately having a bitch, I bought my first Porsche in 1967 (might have been '68) and have owned quite a few since. Currently on a Cayenne.

sandbar

 

[AndrewCS]

A little more fuel ... ttp://www.design911.co.uk/blog/index.php/2008/11/11/what-are-n-rated-tyres/

Regards differences ... I have two pairs of Michelin PS Cup 2 tyres, same size - same year - one pair N rated, the other not.

They are physically different ... the sidewalls are a slightly different shape, those of the N rated do not have any rim protection and hence are more `curved` than those of the non N rated ... which do have rim protection, on the outer sidewall only.

 

[ralphmusic]

Interestingly or not, I queried why Cup2 do not have a rim protection band and was told by a Senior Michelin guy that Porsche had not specified it as a requirement. So I wonder why Dunlop Sport Maxx for Porsche GT cars has the band.

 

[paul08]

Interestingly or not, I queried why Cup2 do not have a rim protection band and was told by a Senior Michelin guy that Porsche had not specified it as a requirement. So I wonder why Dunlop Sport Maxx for Porsche GT cars has the band.

I have heard some weak excuses in my time, indeed I have come up with some myself in my teens, but if Michelin really did use the excuse that rim protection was not specified by Porsche as a reason (excuse) why no rim protection was provided then we should perhaps look elsewhere for tyres. I thought Michelin would also consider their customers' needs, and low profile tyres and even normal kerbs do not mix well

And many thanks for everyone's contributions: I now better understand the whole N rating issue

 

[ralphmusic]

Perhaps my post was not clear, Porsche specify all the attributes of the tyre. It is not that Michelin are being cheapskates and trying to save money with an inferior product.

 

[Brian_Innes]

Absolutely Ralph.

I'm awaiting my order to arrive next month for Michelin PS4S N0's. I decided to wait for the N version as I wanted to see if there was any price disadvantage over the normal PS4S. It appears not, as the quote from my local Michelin supplier for the N versions was very competitive and entirely acceptable to me.

Porsche were playing silly games with the release dates of the N versions of PS4S and I very nearly gave up on them.

I shall be reporting further on my experiences the PS4S on road and track in due course.

Meantime I'm stuck with the P-Zero N1's for Oulton park next week.

Brian

 

[ralphmusic]

Brian,

You have to work the tyres and avoid rubber left by slicks

Even more pick up..

 

[ravlondon]

I've had confirmation from my local independent Michelin tyre supplier that PS4S N0 tyres in the 20" sizes for my car are available for allocation now. Rears are in stock at Michelin Stoke on Trent, with fronts ready by December 21st. Prices each fitted and balanced are £261 rear, and £210 front. Seems reasonable to me.

I've ordered a set for my 718 CS for fitting early in the new year.

PCGB Oulton Park track day next week will see the P-Zero N1's finished for me. They are an improvement on the awful N0 version, but for me they don't have the durability and consistency of grip compared to Michelin Super Sports or the awesome Cup 2's.

I'll be reporting on my opinions on the PS4S in due course next year.

Brian

Thank Brian. Can I ask how are the Cup 2s for normal road driving? Heard they take are more suited to hard track day driving and might be a slippery in wet for a normal run to the shops. Will try contacting Michelin directly.

 

[Brian_Innes]

Cup 2's are fine for normal road driving. They work best in the dry and when warm. Not especially suited to cold winter temperatures. Standing water in very wet road conditions also needs special care.

I ran Cup 2's on both the road and track all year round in my CR without any issues.

Brian

 

[MrDemon]

I've had confirmation from my local independent Michelin tyre supplier that PS4S N0 tyres in the 20" sizes for my car are available for allocation now. Rears are in stock at Michelin Stoke on Trent, with fronts ready by December 21st. Prices each fitted and balanced are £261 rear, and £210 front. Seems reasonable to me.

I've ordered a set for my 718 CS for fitting early in the new year.

PCGB Oulton Park track day next week will see the P-Zero N1's finished for me. They are an improvement on the awful N0 version, but for me they don't have the durability and consistency of grip compared to Michelin Super Sports or the awesome Cup 2's.

I'll be reporting on my opinions on the PS4S in due course next year.

Brian

Thank Brian. Can I ask how are the Cup 2s for normal road driving? Heard they take are more suited to hard track day driving and might be a slippery in wet for a normal run to the shops. Will try contacting Michelin directly.

with this rain you are stuck to about 45mph any faster and they start to lift.

pretty scary in standing water imo.