Porsche 944 s2 whining noise

[rowey200]

First day off over the Christmas period, so I thought I'd crack on with a couple of jobs on the 944.

Sorted a small power steering fluid leak and then took the belt cover off to investigate a whine that seems a little loud to me coming from that area. It's a whine that rises and falls with engine revs - its not got any worse in the 6 months I've had the car but plays on my mind [].

Before I bought the car it had a full belt change along with the associated rollers. The previous owner did not get the water pump done at this time (bummer), so I suspected that this might be the cause of the noise. Using an improvised stethoscope the noise seems to be coming from the part below which sits just to the right of the water pump (it might even be part of the water pump?). Can anyone shed any light on what this part is, some sort of tensioner maybe?

I also discovered while under the car that there is a small water leak coming from what I suspect to be the water pump gasket (dripping down to the side of the power steering pump), oh the joys!

I forgot to take a vid of the noise, but will try and do this tomorrow - any advice in the mean-time is welcomed []

 

[Monkeythree]

That is the cam belt tensioner. In itself, it is not a moving part so unlikely to be the source of the noise. But it carries the cam belt tensioner pulley and if that is worn then the tensioner might be resonating at some frequencies and "singing" a bit. Or if the pulley was replaced and known to be good then it's probably just belt whine. Suggest checking the belt tension.

 

[rowey200]

ORIGINAL: Monkeythree

That is the cam belt tensioner. In itself, it is not a moving part so unlikely to be the source of the noise. But it carries the cam belt tensioner pulley and if that is worn then the tensioner might be resonating at some frequencies and "singing" a bit. Or if the pulley was replaced and known to be good then it's probably just belt whine. Suggest checking the belt tension.

Cheers for the reply! I will dig out the invoice and check if the tensioner pulley was changed. I'll also post up a vid of the noise when I get a chance......be nice if it is just general belt whine!

 

[soli]

please let me know what you find because i have the same kind of noise. adjusted the belt as was a bit too tight but still having the noise

 

[rowey200]

Link to a short vid of the whining noise. I'd be interested to here what people think.

Cheers in advance []

http://vid37.photobucket.com/albums/e70/T785JMY/Car%20issues%20etc/DSC_0284_zpsmeqsq8sk.mp4

 

[Monkeythree]

Sounds like too much tension on the cam belt to me. I would back the tension off a nadge and see what difference that makes. Or borrow a tensioning tool if you want to set it correctly.

 

[Monkeythree]

Check the tension by trying to turn the water pump pulley with your fingers. If you can't turn it, the belt is too tight. You should be able to turn it but with some drag from the backside of the cam belt.

 

[Wardy 944]

Definitely belt tension, you should be able to twist the belts with your fingers, around 90degrees for the timing belt and 180 for the balancer shaft. If the belts have been changed by someone unfamiliar with the marque I'll guarantee the balancer belt will be too tight, they run unbelievably loose.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

The belt was changed by the previous owner, but did it have the 1000 mile check carried out?

Tensioner is free to borrow for PCGB members, of course, but I'd guess most specialists would charge an hour's rate to check it?

 

[rowey200]

ORIGINAL: The Game

If the belts have been changed by someone unfamiliar with the marque I'll guarantee the balancer belt will be too tight, they run unbelievably loose.

I suspect this might be the case. The previous owner did not use a specialist for the belt change and I doubt the correct tool was used to tension them (although I don't know this for fact).

I'll pop the cover off again tomorrow and see how the belts etc feel tension wise. While I'm keen to learn and can turn a spanner re basic servicing etc, i'm a bit out of my depth with this sort of thing. I guess it might be best getting an indi specialist to check the tensions.

Thanks for your help so far

 

[rowey200]

ORIGINAL: Monkeythree

Check the tension by trying to turn the water pump pulley with your fingers. If you can't turn it, the belt is too tight. You should be able to turn it but with some drag from the backside of the cam belt.

Thanks - I'll pop the cover off again tomorrow and check this []

 

[rowey200]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

The belt was changed by the previous owner, but did it have the 1000 mile check carried out?

Tensioner is free to borrow for PCGB members, of course, but I'd guess most specialists would charge an hour's rate to check it?

Thanks Paul - will bear that in mind!

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
I'd guess most specialists would charge an hour's rate to check it?

Depends upon the specialist. My local indie is happy to spend 30 seconds checking belt tension if you go there and take the covers off yourself. He probably won't adjust it for you, but will certainly let you know whether it is right or not.


Oli.

 

[Matey]

The idler highlighted in yellow is a howler if it's not right.

There's mixed information on what is the right way, some say the belt should touch it, some say credit card thickness between the belt and idler, some say it needs to be adjusted clockwise/anticlockwise and I can't remember what worked for me now but it's easy to do.

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[vitesse]

ORIGINAL: rowey200

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I also discovered while under the car that there is a small water leak coming from what I suspect to be the water pump gasket (dripping down to the side of the power steering pump), oh the joys!

Could also be a leak from the oil cooler house-(if there is one on an S2

 

[keviar]

The noise could also be bad alternator bearings, try removing alternator belt then start engine to see if it makes any difference.

 

[rowey200]

I took the belt cover off again and checked out a few things that people have suggested. I took a vid of it all but Photobucket doesn't seem to want to upload it. Anyway, the main points:

- Balance belt does not seem too tight, can easily be rotated round 90 degrees +. Belt appears to be 'just' touching the idler.
- Cambelt seems quite tight, cannot not be rotated more than 45 degrees. Water pump pulley cannot be moved when engine not running. No obvious play in water pump pulley.
- When the engine was running I placed a screwdriver on the cambelt tensioner to have a listen - I could feel a vibration that seemed to fit in with the noise (it's also noisy when you listen through the top of the screwdriver)

Based on the above and what people have already advised, looks like the cambelt is too tight making the tensioner pulley noisy. I'll get the car booked into a specialist after Christmas and get the tension properly checked. Below is a short vid with the cover off:

http://s37.photobucket.com/user/T785JMY/media/Car%20issues%20etc/DSC_0287_zpsmw2ng5ip.mp4.html

Thanks for everyones help so far - time for a couple of festive drinks soon I feel []

 

[rowey200]

ORIGINAL: Matey

The idler highlighted in yellow is a howler if it's not right.

There's mixed information on what is the right way, some say the belt should touch it, some say credit card thickness between the belt and idler, some say it needs to be adjusted clockwise/anticlockwise and I can't remember what worked for me now but it's easy to do.

[/URL][/IMG]

Thanks for this - on mine it's just touching the balance belt when the engines not running. It spins up freely and feels / sounds nice and smooth [&:]

 

[Monkeythree]

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ORIGINAL: rowey200

I took the belt cover off again and checked out a few things that people have suggested. I took a vid of it all but Photobucket doesn't seem to want to upload it. Anyway, the main points:

- Balance belt does not seem too tight, can easily be rotated round 90 degrees +. Belt appears to be 'just' touching the idler.
- Cambelt seems quite tight, cannot not be rotated more than 45 degrees. Water pump pulley cannot be moved when engine not running. No obvious play in water pump pulley.
- When the engine was running I placed a screwdriver on the cambelt tensioner to have a listen - I could feel a vibration that seemed to fit in with the noise (it's also noisy when you listen through the top of the screwdriver)

Based on the above and what people have already advised, looks like the cambelt is too tight making the tensioner pulley noisy. I'll get the car booked into a specialist after Christmas and get the tension properly checked. Below is a short vid with the cover off:

http://s37.photobucket.com/user/T785JMY/media/Car%20issues%20etc/DSC_0287_zpsmw2ng5ip.mp4.html

Thanks for everyones help so far - time for a couple of festive drinks soon I feel []

All pointing towards it being a bit toight on the cam belt. Before spending hard earned on a specialist I would suggest having a bash yourself. All you need to do is undo the two nuts on the tensioner and it will spring itself into maximum belt tension. The top bolt is a pivot and the lower bolt is on an arc. So if you set it free then use a suitably large wrench to wind it back a bit, you then lock it's position first with the arc bolt and second with the pivot bolt. Use the water pump pulley twist test as a guide and have a few goes with the the cam belt tesnsion. The water pump pulley relies on the backside of the cam belt for traction but it's not a heavy contact. The water pump pulley should be turnable in your fingers but with noticable drag from the cam belt. It's only two nuts so play around with it for a while until you find a water pump pulley tension that feels "right". That might sound a bit weird but if you have any kind of mechanical feel then you it feel be obvious when it is right.

 

[rowey200]

ORIGINAL: Monkeythree

O

ORIGINAL: rowey200

I took the belt cover off again and checked out a few things that people have suggested. I took a vid of it all but Photobucket doesn't seem to want to upload it. Anyway, the main points:

- Balance belt does not seem too tight, can easily be rotated round 90 degrees +. Belt appears to be 'just' touching the idler.
- Cambelt seems quite tight, cannot not be rotated more than 45 degrees. Water pump pulley cannot be moved when engine not running. No obvious play in water pump pulley.
- When the engine was running I placed a screwdriver on the cambelt tensioner to have a listen - I could feel a vibration that seemed to fit in with the noise (it's also noisy when you listen through the top of the screwdriver)

Based on the above and what people have already advised, looks like the cambelt is too tight making the tensioner pulley noisy. I'll get the car booked into a specialist after Christmas and get the tension properly checked. Below is a short vid with the cover off:

http://s37.photobucket.com/user/T785JMY/media/Car%20issues%20etc/DSC_0287_zpsmw2ng5ip.mp4.html

Thanks for everyones help so far - time for a couple of festive drinks soon I feel []

All pointing towards it being a bit toight on the cam belt. Before spending hard earned on a specialist I would suggest having a bash yourself. All you need to do is undo the two nuts on the tensioner and it will spring itself into maximum belt tension. The top bolt is a pivot and the lower bolt is on an arc. So if you set it free then use a suitably large wrench to wind it back a bit, you then lock it's position first with the arc bolt and second with the pivot bolt. Use the water pump pulley twist test as a guide and have a few goes with the the cam belt tesnsion. The water pump pulley relies on the backside of the cam belt for traction but it's not a heavy contact. The water pump pulley should be turnable in your fingers but with noticable drag from the cam belt. It's only two nuts so play around with it for a while until you find a water pump pulley tension that feels "right". That might sound a bit weird but if you have any kind of mechanical feel then you it feel be obvious when it is right.

Thanks for the info. I can't quite picture how you adjust the tension once both bolts are slackened off. When you say use a large wrench to wind it back, do you mean move the whole tensioner with the wrench and then lock it off once the tension on the belt feels right?

Cheers in advance []