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Porsche 944 s2 whining noise


ORIGINAL: rowey200


ORIGINAL: Monkeythree

O
ORIGINAL: rowey200

I took the belt cover off again and checked out a few things that people have suggested. I took a vid of it all but Photobucket doesn't seem to want to upload it. Anyway, the main points:

- Balance belt does not seem too tight, can easily be rotated round 90 degrees +. Belt appears to be 'just' touching the idler.
- Cambelt seems quite tight, cannot not be rotated more than 45 degrees. Water pump pulley cannot be moved when engine not running. No obvious play in water pump pulley.
- When the engine was running I placed a screwdriver on the cambelt tensioner to have a listen - I could feel a vibration that seemed to fit in with the noise (it's also noisy when you listen through the top of the screwdriver)

Based on the above and what people have already advised, looks like the cambelt is too tight making the tensioner pulley noisy. I'll get the car booked into a specialist after Christmas and get the tension properly checked. Below is a short vid with the cover off:

http://s37.photobucket.com/user/T785JMY/media/Car%20issues%20etc/DSC_0287_zpsmw2ng5ip.mp4.html

Thanks for everyones help so far - time for a couple of festive drinks soon I feel [:D]

All pointing towards it being a bit toight on the cam belt. Before spending hard earned on a specialist I would suggest having a bash yourself. All you need to do is undo the two nuts on the tensioner and it will spring itself into maximum belt tension. The top bolt is a pivot and the lower bolt is on an arc. So if you set it free then use a suitably large wrench to wind it back a bit, you then lock it's position first with the arc bolt and second with the pivot bolt. Use the water pump pulley twist test as a guide and have a few goes with the the cam belt tesnsion. The water pump pulley relies on the backside of the cam belt for traction but it's not a heavy contact. The water pump pulley should be turnable in your fingers but with noticable drag from the cam belt. It's only two nuts so play around with it for a while until you find a water pump pulley tension that feels "right". That might sound a bit weird but if you have any kind of mechanical feel then you it feel be obvious when it is right.

Thanks for the info. I can't quite picture how you adjust the tension once both bolts are slackened off. When you say use a large wrench to wind it back, do you mean move the whole tensioner with the wrench and then lock it off once the tension on the belt feels right?

Cheers in advance [:D]

Yes, exactly. The tensioner body is fixed to the engine block with 4 bolts (don't touch these) and then the tensioner arm is spring loaded against the tensioner body and pivots about a steel pin which is fixed to the tensioner body. This pin has a lock nut and then there is a second lock nut on the tensioner arm. If you look at your photo, you will see the tensioner arm has a curved slot under this second lock nut. That curved slot allows the tensioner arm to rotate around the pivot but only with a limited range of movement (the length of the curved slot).
You will also see on the tensioner arm two holes. These are for a special tool to fit into to get the leverage on the tensioner arm to twist it back against the spring tension. But you can achieve the same thing by using a big wrench (swan neck or similar) to do the same job. So you need to twist the tensioner arm back with the wrench in one hand and then nip up the lock nut on the curved slot with a socket in the other hand. Check the tension. Repeat until you're happy with it then tighten up BOTH the lock nuts on the tensioner arm to secure it in the final position.
 

ORIGINAL: Monkeythree


ORIGINAL: rowey200


ORIGINAL: Monkeythree

O
ORIGINAL: rowey200

I took the belt cover off again and checked out a few things that people have suggested. I took a vid of it all but Photobucket doesn't seem to want to upload it. Anyway, the main points:

- Balance belt does not seem too tight, can easily be rotated round 90 degrees +. Belt appears to be 'just' touching the idler.
- Cambelt seems quite tight, cannot not be rotated more than 45 degrees. Water pump pulley cannot be moved when engine not running. No obvious play in water pump pulley.
- When the engine was running I placed a screwdriver on the cambelt tensioner to have a listen - I could feel a vibration that seemed to fit in with the noise (it's also noisy when you listen through the top of the screwdriver)

Based on the above and what people have already advised, looks like the cambelt is too tight making the tensioner pulley noisy. I'll get the car booked into a specialist after Christmas and get the tension properly checked. Below is a short vid with the cover off:

http://s37.photobucket.com/user/T785JMY/media/Car%20issues%20etc/DSC_0287_zpsmw2ng5ip.mp4.html

Thanks for everyones help so far - time for a couple of festive drinks soon I feel [:D]

All pointing towards it being a bit toight on the cam belt. Before spending hard earned on a specialist I would suggest having a bash yourself. All you need to do is undo the two nuts on the tensioner and it will spring itself into maximum belt tension. The top bolt is a pivot and the lower bolt is on an arc. So if you set it free then use a suitably large wrench to wind it back a bit, you then lock it's position first with the arc bolt and second with the pivot bolt. Use the water pump pulley twist test as a guide and have a few goes with the the cam belt tesnsion. The water pump pulley relies on the backside of the cam belt for traction but it's not a heavy contact. The water pump pulley should be turnable in your fingers but with noticable drag from the cam belt. It's only two nuts so play around with it for a while until you find a water pump pulley tension that feels "right". That might sound a bit weird but if you have any kind of mechanical feel then you it feel be obvious when it is right.

Thanks for the info. I can't quite picture how you adjust the tension once both bolts are slackened off. When you say use a large wrench to wind it back, do you mean move the whole tensioner with the wrench and then lock it off once the tension on the belt feels right?

Cheers in advance [:D]

Yes, exactly. The tensioner body is fixed to the engine block with 4 bolts (don't touch these) and then the tensioner arm is spring loaded against the tensioner body and pivots about a steel pin which is fixed to the tensioner body. This pin has a lock nut and then there is a second lock nut on the tensioner arm. If you look at your photo, you will see the tensioner arm has a curved slot under this second lock nut. That curved slot allows the tensioner arm to rotate around the pivot but only with a limited range of movement (the length of the curved slot).
You will also see on the tensioner arm two holes. These are for a special tool to fit into to get the leverage on the tensioner arm to twist it back against the spring tension. But you can achieve the same thing by using a big wrench (swan neck or similar) to do the same job. So you need to twist the tensioner arm back with the wrench in one hand and then nip up the lock nut on the curved slot with a socket in the other hand. Check the tension. Repeat until you're happy with it then tighten up BOTH the lock nuts on the tensioner arm to secure it in the final position.

Great stuff, really appreciate your help!

I can see that the nut is currently fixed about half way through the curved adjuster, so certainly some room for adjustment.

 
Just thought I'd post a quick update.

At the weekend I spent some time adjusting the cambelt tension - the long and short was that the various adjustments I made, made no difference to the whining noise unfortunately (although a worthy exercise as the belt was definitely a tad too tight).

Next step is to look at / replace the pulley on the tensioner.

Thanks for all that have helped so far [;)]
 
Just remembered I had a photo of the parts that came off the car when the belts and rollers etc where changed (just before I bought the car) - am I correct in thinking that the top toothed pulley is the cambelt tensioner pulley?

 
you know what...

my cab makes that noise! I thought thought it was normal..

OK a job for this year then.. I bought the car from my mate who knows 944's as he has had 5-6 of them.. I know he replaced the belt so I will have to ask him about this..

other wise the car's going no where till I fix that.. thanks for this.. I would rather have parts replaced now than do a whole 16V head replacement :-/
 
To be honest, the research that I've done into this certainly identifies that they (S2) do make a bit of noise / whine simply because there is quite a bit going on what with the balance belt and associated rollers/pulleys etc added into the equation. If you have concerns I would in the first instance (based on the advice I have been given) just check for any obvious play/noise from rollers etc and get the belt tensions checked [;)]
 
They should gentley sing according to the old boy at East London OPC. If they are loud too tight, if you can't hear them too loose
 

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