Price crash

Guest · Aug 4, 2005

Last year I paid my OPC £56,000 for a 2-year old C2 Cabrio (Oct 02) with 6,000 miles. This was slightly over my budget but they said it was the absolute lowest they could go. Sadly I need to sell it now, with 18,800 miles. They say it needs 4 new tyres (OK) and refurbed front and rear bumpers and bonnet (I'm no bodywork expert but they look fine to me). They tell me it is worth just £37,000. £19K in 8 months? Can that be right?

philippe · Aug 4, 2005

They sell high and buy low. Try a few other OPC's it depends on stock and demand they have. Also try the well known specialists if you can wait a bit you will get far more for it i am sure. I know the 996 prices have taken a bit of a hammering but not that much.

Good luck.

Phil

Rotorhead · Aug 4, 2005

That seems like a pretty derisory offer. But it's not just 996s. Boxsters, Cayennes, even 997s and most other prestige brands are suffering. Too many cars chasing too few customers.

Sadly, Porsche are now volume producers and, combined with the launch of lots of new models in close succession, they run the risk of devaluing the brand, especially if the traditionally strong(ish) residuals start to suffer.

garyandjanet · Aug 4, 2005

Snap - we have a August 02 cost £55k - last offer we had was £40k - we have a c4 cab with 32k on the clock and is a facelift car.

Lets face it all Porsche`s no longer hold the money - But they are good fun to drive.

Look on the up side our ISA is 20% up[

] - Just love Latin America

carrera4boy · Aug 4, 2005

Richard,

I would try a few others like Camtune and Charles Ivey. Porsche will have to respray the front and rear spoilers as common practice, then 4 new tyres, perhaps brakes and a full service , alloy refurb and valet etc, which will cost a few grand. Their normal mark up is £6k on top of their costs. (Reading General manager informed me) so expect that car to be in their showroom 2 weeks from now at £46995 with a 12 month warranty and bouquet of flowers. They are a very profitable company, and harsh with it.

Sorry, but no-one ever makes a profit on a Porsche. You just have to grit your teeth and do it. No family holiday this year i'm afraid.
Simon [

]

Guest · Aug 5, 2005

I have a 996TT which has been losing money at a frightening rate recently - though the trend seems to be slowing.
It would have been easy to bail out but I made the decision to hold tight & see what happens. I have a 997 TT on order so will keep the 996TT up until Autumn next year & just grin & bear it when I am told what mine is worth !
In a strange way I love the car so much I am not actually that bothered what residuals are doing, they do what they do. Helps that you go into Porsche (or any supercar) ownership with your eyes wide open.

Julian.

Rotorhead · Aug 5, 2005

ORIGINAL: Adrian Fuller

As posted on this site I test drove several 997s on several occasions. I concluded that it is a better car than my 996, but not £30K better. - In the end I just could not justify the increase for a small increase in driving / ownership pleasure !

So I'm keeping my old one for another couple of years or so. - I've even booked it's first zymol treatment to show it I still love it !

Eventually I think I will probably buy used next time. - Maybe a depreciation hit 997 or perhaps something really crazy like a GT2 - These have lost sooooo much money recently !!

Absolutely spot on.

I bought my first 911 in 1983 and I've upgraded every couple of years or so and, in the main, the residuals have been pretty good.

Along comes the 997, (which would be my 11th 911) . Nice car but, from experience, I'll wait for the second model year so they can iron out any niggles. But now, looking at the figures, it makes no sense - £30k to change! My 996 is excellent, perfect in many respects, and the 997 simply doesn't offer that much more. And even 997s are losing a packet.

When you are spending your own 'real' money it doesn't make logical sense. I've long since lost interest in 'having to have the latest model' and Im much more interested in the classic 911s.

For the extra £30k one could buy a real 'classic' 911 (911S, 911 'Club Sport', 964RS etc) that shouldn't lose money and may well appreciate.

garyw · Aug 5, 2005

ORIGINAL: Julian Bolger

I have a 996TT which has been losing money at a frightening rate recently - though the trend seems to be slowing.
It would have been easy to bail out but I made the decision to hold tight & see what happens. I have a 997 TT on order so will keep the 996TT up until Autumn next year & just grin & bear it when I am told what mine is worth !
In a strange way I love the car so much I am not actually that bothered what residuals are doing, they do what they do. Helps that you go into Porsche (or any supercar) ownership with your eyes wide open.

Julian.

snap..

In the region of 25K a year I fear [

]

garyw

tripe · Aug 5, 2005

This all makes very interesting reading. As I recall a basic 911 Carrera would have cost around £38k new in 1988 and decent versions of these are now selling for around £15k +, so just over 50% depreciation in 17 years (disregarding the effects of inflation). I bought a 911 Speedster 9 years ago which I still have and would hope to get pretty much what I paid for it if I sold it now, so I think if anyone is looking to avoid the depreciation trap then going retro is the way to do it, though I would be the first to admit that the older models are not necessarily ideal as daily drivers (a Speedster especially so). Having been sorely tempted by a new facelift 996 in 2001 and subsequently having read the horror stories about glacial depreciation and faults such as RMS etc I'm glad that in the end my head ruled my heart and I kept the faith - oldskool!

Sadly I fear that the 996 is heading for 928 territory, i.e. £70k new 10+ years ago for a fantastic car, now available for sub £10k and an absolute bargain for the enthusiasts out there.

garyandjanet · Aug 5, 2005

Sub £10k could be pushing it a bit, however you are right that they will be some very good (and cheap cars) for the enthusiasts in 2 to 3 years.

Looks like we will be keeping ours for some years, keep up the warrenty and enjoy the car to its full or get someone to steal the car and claim the money back on the GAP insurance [

]

dpoynton · Aug 5, 2005

Adrian - you are spot on IMO.

I've gone the LHD route and pick up my 09/03 996C2 Tip tomorrow - £37.5k spec list as long as War & Peace!

I could afford the extra £12k for a second hand LHD 997 but when I saw the price gap between the last 993's and the first 996's (nil / negative) then all I could see was the 996/997 gap going the same way. (I await a stream of emails from 993 owners extolling the virues of air cooling on a 911).

At the end of the day I asked myself whether the 997 was worth £12k more for a car which was one year newer and the first of the line which MAY have niggles attached.

I could not get comfortable with this aspect and chose as I did. I believe I have got better value for money bearing in mind future depreciation.

Dynamically the 997 appears to be better than the 996, performance is very similar, and ironically views such as ours might, if perpetuated, lead to a hardening of 996 values.

Guest · Aug 5, 2005

ORIGINAL: Adrian Fuller
For exactly this reason I have just cancelled my 997 order (yesterday)....

Ah, that explains it! (I recalled your post comparing the 997/997S.)
I was wondering why you were bothering about the bedding in of new discs/brakes post but didn't like to ask.

And it's funny how great minds think alike, as all the other posts in this thread so far share exactly the same sentiments.

Looking to the future though, Porsche themselves must surely eventually come crashing down, something's got to give here somewhere me thinks.

Guest · Aug 5, 2005

Just wait until the Cayman arrives later this year. By all reports incredible handling and significantly cheaper, and as a result is likely to have a negative impact on all 911 prices. Still, as has been mentioned before, these cars are bought for the driving thrills and the fact they represent the aspiration of a lifetime. That alone makes the cost worthwhile (IMO). They never have or will be a rational way to invest money.

tallmat · Aug 5, 2005

Truth is, there are very few cars that hold value, especially with most of the "prestige" brands having to produce in greater numbers simply to recoup higher initial development costs. I think the market is under pressure across the board and the 996 is bound to get hit as the "just replaced" model.

Take a look at Autotrader - 80 Ferrari 360s on sale, prices that show 50% depreciation in 3-4 years.

It's a nice feeling if our cars hang on to their value, but residual worth is a relative thing. Spend a fortune on a beautiful woman and the return is either a short experience (in my case...!) or she moves in and that costs a fortune too.

jason · Aug 5, 2005

I think its great that prices are plummeting - won't be long now till us people with more sense than money will have the chance to pick up an enormous amount of relatively new car for not a lot of money and pretty much bomb proof depreciation. then go out and really enjoy it without worrying on how much it's going to lose over the next year, month, week...!

I'm pleased there are so many people still prepared to throw money at new cars - so please don't stop!

Although that doesn't mean a second hand ferrari that has lost a lot of money in depreciation becomes a good buy- especially if it costs you the same amount again just to keep it on the road....

Onto my 6th Porsche now....driven them all hard and made money on every one.

Gotta love Porsche.

<slightly sarcastic and pleased with myself mode off>

Guest · Aug 5, 2005

ORIGINAL: jason
I think its great that prices are plummeting - won't be long now till us people with more sense than money will have the chance to pick up an enormous amount of relatively new car for not a lot of money and pretty much bomb proof depreciation. then go out and really enjoy it without worrying on how much it's going to lose over the next year, month, week...!

Well glad to see something good's come out of all this. Instead of my buying a new 997, I should cut out the middle man and just send you the cash then? [&:] [

]

Not quite with you on the "...prices are plummeting" ...."bomb proof depreciation..." bit though; seems a bit self contradictory.

Onto my 6th Porsche now....driven them all hard and made money on every one.

So what's your secret then jason?

jason · Aug 5, 2005

I'll tell you tomorrow...I'm going for a beer[

]

Oh and I meant prices plummet on cars up to say 5 years old to a certain level then after that point Porsches can have pretty much bomb proof depreciation if you have the right car and there are enough enthusiasts that want them - which seems to be where the 996 is suffering (oh and the engine fears...)

Guest · Aug 6, 2005

The 996 is touted as a daily driver and by all accounts it should last 150-200,000 miles or even more since most of us have them serviced approprately, if not over zealously. I intend to keep mine as long as I can if not for ever.
My Uncle has a 911 he bought new in 1987, he has used that car as a daily driver ever since and still drives it with 167,000 miles on the clock. He has kept it pristine and he regularly drives it to Spain and back. As he said, he paid his car up 15 years ago and has had the pleasure of driving a 911 for free since then (apart from service and running costs) and he intends to continue doing the same. It is still a 911 and always will be a 911. There will always be new and better cars but to drive one for 15 years for free is the best investment he has ever made in a car. So, this is the way route I will take; while I have a serious ammount of money invested in my 996 Cab, it is paid up in 6 months and then hopefully I will get to enjoy it for many years to come at relativey little cost. It cost you a lot of hard earned tax paid cash for your 911 so just drive it and enjoy it.

Guest · Aug 6, 2005

If everyone adopted that approach, there wouldn't be an issue with second hand values.
The bottom line is that too many people are selling.
Whether this is because too many people have bought them is another matter. If the percentage that sell relatively quickly is the same, then there are more second hand cars on the market. But it would appear the second hand market is not growing as fast as the new car market. Hence the mismatch - else people are buying something else second hand.
I'm with Berny, if I can get 20 years of driving out of it, then price is not really an issue.
Besides, I'm inclined to keep it now anyway, just to stop some smug person from getting a bargain.