Pulled the trigger brought gtx 3071 with tial v band

[TTM]

Using a GTX compressor with a KKK turbine would make sense if the compressor output is such that it will not choke the turbine. KKK turbines are known to be a lot more restrictive than GT turbines, which may mean you would need to use a "rather large" KKK turbine with a "rather small" GTX compressor in the hope to level out turbine inlet pressure (TIP) with peak boost (PB), for a fixed (engine size ; PB) couple.

A few people have actually measured back pressure. Vic Timpauer in this thread posted his results using a GT3076R/0.63 on a 2.5 engine, which suggests to me that going for a GT30 housing larger than 0.63 on a 2.5 engine may bring nothing but lag.
I am getting a 1,1 TIP/PB ratio with GTX3076R/0.82 on my 3L engine, which tells me this compressor and this hotside are very well-sized together considering my boost level of 1.2 bar.

TIP is very simple to measure and anyone with some heat-resistant hose, a boost gauge and a couple of clamps can measure it on their own cars, using the CO test port tube on the cross pipe. Since the TIP/PB ratio may vary with RPM, it should also give an indication on how well the engine is breathing in function of where it's running in the RPM range.

 

[nick_968]

ORIGINAL: T3rra

Thanks for all the tips and advice. If I need more power I will change turbine housing rather then increase boost above 1.4 as iv only got a 3 bar map señor.

I had hope it was the back pressure that was keeping boost figure lower rather then manifold pressure.

Exhaust will be 3" all the way though. Would it be best to use v band only on turbine housing? And keep a flange set up lower down, make the discharge pipe longer so you can get to studs. This would help keep the v band alignment flush.

You can get gtx range in kkk hybrid. Iv been speaking with andy taylor at AET. Not sure how they do it, as the turbine wheel is smaller. I'm thinking they use 24kkk hot side. I was close to going this route. Only thing that concern was the kkk housing causing back pressure. I don't no off much data to prove this as I don't think any one done a back to back test on the hybrid vs garret housing.

Then this turbo turn up for sale. Looks like flanges and clamps are another £150

With the v band do you make the a male and female fit? Move one clamp down the pipe a little and set the other follward on the pipe? Best to do this in the flow direction? I think this would help against leave as it stager the joint.

Turning cross over in to a two peace item. Should I flange that rather then v band? Can ask for studs to be weild in so its just nuts one side.

There are kkk housings that you can bolt to the GT series turbos however none that will just bolt straight up without cutting and re-welding the exhaust that I know of as the center section has a different orientation to the t series turbos which can bolt straight on with the kkk housing, hence their popularity. Making the crossover 2 piece can create another potential source for leaks, if you are going to v band there is limited upside to doing this as the v band should be pretty quick to remove anyway.

 

[George Elliott]

Are you sure it is a GT series and not a T series ball bearing with a kkk housing as that would make a lot more sense.

Nick, I think you are aware I did not spec this up, but inherited it on the car. Therefore I'm a bit unsure what I'm talking about, and some of you gents have very detailed knowledge of turbo's.

I can only pass on what I understand, - what happened was i sent an image of the turbo to turbo-dynamics and provided a serial number to them, and the guy there recognised the number and confirmed it was a GT30/KKK ball-bearing hybrid which they produced.

It works pretty good, and a marvellous spin-off benefit is that with a perfect bore block and this turbo I have a car with zero oil usage

George
944t

 

[nick_968]

ORIGINAL: George Elliott

Are you sure it is a GT series and not a T series ball bearing with a kkk housing as that would make a lot more sense.

Nick, I think you are aware I did not spec this up, but inherited it on the car. Therefore I'm a bit unsure what I'm talking about, and some of you gents have very detailed knowledge of turbo's.

I can only pass on what I understand, - what happened was i sent an image of the turbo to turbo-dynamics and provided a serial number to them, and the guy there recognised the number and confirmed it was a GT30/KKK ball-bearing hybrid which they produced.

It works pretty good, and a marvellous spin-off benefit is that with a perfect bore block and this turbo I have a car with zero oil usage

George
944t

Hi George

Sorry its hard to keep track of who has what car with what turbo. I had a feeling you had one of Simons turbos but I thought you had bought just the turbo. Now I remember you must have the 944 he restored with the rebuilt engine and one of his turbos already installed. Now it makes sense. I am still not sure on the GT30 think, to my knowledge he had not done that conversion but then anything is possible. It matters little which turbo it is if it performing well anyhow! Just interested as always to find out what is working for people I take it they did not give you any details of the turbine or compressor wheel sizes? If you ever get a chance, count the number of blades on the turbine (hotside) wheel as that is normally different on the GT30 turbos. Is your engine still a 2.5?

 

[T3rra]

2 peace x cross pipe would make it Easyer to drop the sump? But not sure why I would need to. I just thought from fab point that would make things easier and cheaper and I get a 2 peace crossover.

My thoughts where it be Easyer to offer up and remove for wielding e.c.t I was also worried the studs would snap like they did on turbo and discharge pipe.

Drop the turbo off today. They started the exhaust put some pics on tipec as its Easyer to upload.
Everything moving quickly and if I had the v band flanges prob be done by end off sat!

 

[nick_968]

I think if you go for V band the 2 piece crossover is not required and you are just making one more weak point for leaks but that's just my opinion.

Who is doing the fab work?

 

[T3rra]

Fast road

http://www.fastroadconversions.com/

Would a 2 peace item been you don't have to remove anything from above? Just options need to make a descion so feel few to say your thoughts

 

[George Elliott]

T3rra, I also agree there is little advantage to a two piece CO pipe, its complex enough as is - just my opinion.

Nick, no problem - I phoned SPS to discuss BB turbo kit supply, got offered a drive in a car with one, and ......it was easier than removing mine and doing mods to engine mount, injectors, Chips, waste gate Clutch etc. Simon was very good, I had an 84 mile test drive in lots of driving environments. I was afraid of getting an unrefined pig that would be unsuited to everyday use but was pleasantly surprised to find a really tractable quite frisky car that returned 28mpg (I brim to brim tested it) - like an Autocar Test.[] A true Turn key solution, drove it back to Ireland. More expensive perhaps but not a lot. [8|] Few people get to drive the results of a tuning package before committing to it, and that has a value to me. Hassle - what hourly rate would be fair [] I also got a very clean car which saved me a refurb on my own one. They were 70 odd build numbers apart[]

Blade count .....hot side[&:]......I may have an image that shows it or I will enquire.

Yep, still (only) a 2.5. [8|]

As you say, what matters in the end is the way it works, and it really is quite acceptable for my daily drive purposes. If I further the development it will be in the Cam and Engine Management areas.

 

[T3rra]

Why would it leak? Would the flange strengthen the system and reduce flex?

Any other things to take care off? Aos seals or set up.

How much support does the turbo mount give, been attached at the chra? Most supports iv seen seem more complex with wider web. Hanging the turbo just off the exhaust is no no, however the tial housing is much lighter. Got sent a pic off a new engine mount made from fia cd ( roll cage tubing ) guess this give them some turbo position freedom. However I did request some sort off turbo support like an arm coming of the 4 bolt engine mount flange to chra oil drain or to compersor housing backing plate.

George I think the blade count request is to determine if you got 11 blade billet wheel or not.

 

[George Elliott]

Just located an image, the Hot-side turbine is 10 blade

I look forward to hearing what that means...[]

George
944t

 

[T3rra]

Won't be gtx billet wheel as there 11 blade not sure what the gt range is.

Just another question. Is there any reson know one has clocked the turbin housing so the inlet faces down, meaning the cross over would no longer connect on 90 deg bend?

By doing this you would create more room. Slightly straighter pipe work,

Only advantages I can think off no to is turbo charger support from the left is moved underneath.

As I'm having the turbo mount made to accommodate the location off the turbo base on where its size fits best. It would seem there's more room moving it slightly towards the rear. Any ill effects this may cause?

 

[nick_968]

ORIGINAL: George Elliott

Just located an image, the Hot-side turbine is 10 blade

I look forward to hearing what that means...[]

George
944t

If you look at the turbine wheel picture you have are the edges of the blades straight or curved?

 

[nick_968]

ORIGINAL: T3rra

Won't be gtx billet wheel as there 11 blade not sure what the gt range is.

Just another question. Is there any reson know one has clocked the turbin housing so the inlet faces down, meaning the cross over would no longer connect on 90 deg bend?

By doing this you would create more room. Slightly straighter pipe work,

Only advantages I can think off no to is turbo charger support from the left is moved underneath.

As I'm having the turbo mount made to accommodate the location off the turbo base on where its size fits best. It would seem there's more room moving it slightly towards the rear. Any ill effects this may cause?

The pipe route is probably so the crossover works on both RHD and LHD cars if I had to guess.....

 

[George Elliott]

T3rra, thanks, I havent a clue but it works...[]

The hybrid install you describe is a delicate area, I cant answer except to say the OE Crossover is an odd design where it enters the Hotside with unnecessary bends.

Your comments sound like they would fix that, but there are many factors at work and your fabricator would need to understand them all.

George
944t