Race Seat Install

[Guest]

Some time ago I promised to detail my race seat install. Well it still isn't complete, but I thought I would get the ball rolling and start by posting some pictures.

The seat I decided on is a Recaro Pole Position. It is a little dearer than most equivalent Sparcos etc but it is the same shell as the 964RS and is, like all Recaros, a good ergonomic seat. As I am kind of small I like a tight seatbut the Recaro is not so tight that you can't travel long distances in it. Recaro also have the benefit of fitting the standard seat rail widths - more on this below.

The enormous difficulty that I found was getting any information on what fits our cars. Pleanty of shops offered to fit the seats but quoted about a days labour. Ouch. After I had bought everything, I found out from Recaro that you can use their replacement seat rails, standard side mounts and Pole Position seats. A simple bolt in solution. I however bought side mounts from Brey Krause in the USA as they seemed to be the most helpful and knowledgeable of all suppliers (until I talked to Recaro directly in the UK). After receiving the wrong part from BK and various other problems, I am enormously out of pocket with BK and they refuse to recompense me. The part I ended up with works and is fantastic quality (it is in the pictures) but it ought to be made of gold.

Below is a picture of the seat out of the car with its Recaro sliders and Brey-Krause side mounts - these are a simple bolt together. There is some built in width adjustment in the sliders and it pays to mount the seat rails as narrow as possible otherwise you end up with washers between the side mounts and the seats in order to avoid binding.

More pictures and posts to follow.

Richard

 

[Guest]

This second picture shows more detail of the seat/side mount/seat rail interface. The sidemount is stainless painted in crinkle flat black - it is nice. Note the orientation of the side mount. I tried using it the other way around so that the three adjusting holes were at the front but it didn't work very well as the fore/aft adjusting bar (at the front) stuck forward to far. With the holes at the back, I am left with no real rake adjustment as using the middle or bottom holes results in the side mount overlapping the plastic rim of the seat bolt hole - not ideal. The photos of the seat in the car have the reverse orientation and were taken before I changed my mind.

 

[Guest]

This picture shows the back and the deatil of how the seat rail bolts to the slider. It seems to be a fraction out of focus [&:]

 

[Guest]

Next step is to look at the car. To remove the OE seats just unbolt the six allen bolts holding them in and unclip any power leads for the power seats. Two tips. First invest in some quality allen sockets so you can use a socket driver to get some leverage. The cheap allen keys are likely to round out the sockets - don't risk this, it is not pretty, ask me how I know. Second, raise the seats to their higest position so you have more access room.

In this picture you can see the rear bolts.

 

[Guest]

Just a small point, the allen bolts are bolted into some chunky bits of metal that hang below the seat rails. Nothing holds them in so just make sure you grab them rather than let them fall when you undo the allen bolts. You will also see that the seats can be mounted in two positions in order to gain some more legroom. With my new set-up, in order to get all the holes lining up I only had one position that would work - the more forward one. YMMV. The recaro sliders are not an exact match despite being billed as "bolt in". You can only use 4 bolts with the Recaro sliders rather than six. I have been advised that this is ok. The older 911s had only 4 bolts and much heavier seats so it should be fine.

This picture shows the bolts in the chunky piece of metal.

 

[Guest]

For the next stage, I unbolted the seat from the side mounts and bolted the seat rails into the car.

But first, this photo shows the mounting rails (for want of a better description) that are welded into the car at the factory. The multiple holes show the fore/aft adjustment for the OE seats. Also visible is the DME sitting between the mounting rails.

 

[Guest]

Now you get to see the seat rails and side mounts in the car. The clearly visble bolts are the ones holding the seat rails and side mounts together. To bolt the rails to the car you need to pretend you are moving the seat fore and aft so the sliding part of the rails sticks out one end then the other. Hope this makes sense.

 

[Guest]

This picture shows what I described above - how you move the "seat" forward to access the bolt holes. I also had to file the washers with my dremel as they were too wide for the Recaro sliders.

You can also see how the second set of holes do not line up. I may drill them so I can use all six bolts.

 

[Guest]

Next you simply bolt the seat in. Not the best picture but you get the idea.

 

[Guest]

Just one problem remains and that is how you secure the inner seat belt mount - as this attaches to the OE seat.

One solution is to use a harness and to attach 2 eye bolts to the trans tunnel just in front of the access hatch.

Better solution (for me) is to use the 964 RS L shaped bracket that fits between the seat rail and the side mount and allows you to bolt the original seat belt mount to said bracket. These are ordered and I will post photos in due course.

If anyone wants part numbers for the various bits, I can post those at a later date.

I should mention that Recaro does not really endorse the BK side mounts and prefers you use their own side mount. They were after nearly 6 weeks of chasing very helpful and had I started dealing with Recaro initially this whole process would have been a lot easier. We live and learn []

Richard

 

[Anil]

Richard

Nice write up !

I, for one, would be interested to know what sort of weight savings you have realised by switching over to the RECAROs, when compared to the OE electric seats?

Cheers

Anil

 

[Guest]

Well I don't own a set of scales, so it is difficult to say. I would be confident that the final package of new seats, side mounts and seat rails is well under half the weight of the old seats.

The Recaro seats by themselves weigh 4.5kg each - you can easily carry one in each hand. So I would guess that with the other bits they weigh no more than 8.5kg each - probably more like 7.5kg giving a nice round 15kg for the pair. The OE seats are reputed to weigh at least 25kg each and lifting them around they certainly feel like it. So, as a slightly educated guess, I would say the swap is worth a good 30-35kg in weight saving.

Equally important for me was the ability to run 5/6 point harnesses. Being held properly in place on the track should not be underestimated and running just a 4 point harness is IMHO dangerous as you need the sub-straps to keep the lap belt in the correct place.

Richard

 

[Guest]

Richard,

Well done for putting all this on the forum - very useful. I went the transmission tunnel route for my seat belt mounting points - loads of hassle/skinned knuckles etc so will be very interested to hear how you get on with the 964 brackets.

Simon

P.S. Have you moved to manual window winders yet - saves a load of weight too !

 

[Guest]

No manual window winders yet. If you want to post a "how to" article, please feel free...

 

[Guest]

It is removing the electric motors and replacing with manual winders []

Only works if you have electric windows to start with...

 

[Guest]

Richard,

Ill get something down on the window winders over the w/e.
Have also removed auto heating control and reverted to manual arms if anyone is interested ?

Simon

 

[Guest]

More time has passed and finally the brackets I was waiting for have arrived. These allow you to mount the inner seat belt gubbins. The part number is 964.521.065.00 and it is a 964RS piece (also 964 Speedster). A picture is attached below.

The part presented another small problem with my set-up. It mounts with two bolts in the RS and fits between the side mount and the slider. My side mounts and sliders only have one bolt (at the rear), so we will have to make do. I think that one should be fine (wishful thinking?) because the bracket is clamped between flat sections of steel on both sides. Also the force on it in an accident is going to be spread along those flat pieces rather than on the bolt itself. If Recaro thought that one bolt at the rear was enough then that is good enough for me.

 

[Guest]

One more picture showing it all bolted to the seat. Next time you read about this, it should be all in the car []

 

[Guest]

Well, just a few more photos showing the completed install. Having lots of trouble uploading some of my photos (don't know why) so I may not get all my photos up today.

Its hard to get a decent shot showing the finished product but these will certainly give a good idea.

RB

 

[Guest]

Another one.

Sharp eyes will notice that there are no harnesses in the car at present, but normal belts work adequately well.