Some of you may know from a few of my past posts that the engine in my Lux gave up a few weeks ago. Anyway to cut a very long story short, I managed to source a replacement engine from a breakers yard. Before I went to collect the engine the guy at the yard asked me for my chassis number, engine number, reg and year of car so they could make sure they provided the correct engine. (My car is an 1988 and engine code 07). I was very happy when they told me they had a good engine and it had done less then 100k. I collected the engine but foolishly didn't check it as it was stuffed straight in the back of a van. The engine has been fitted, but then I get a call from my mechanic that the engine is wrong as he has no place to put the low oil level cable and the cam belt tensioner is different. I pop across and the engine is different and its code is 05. I have looked this up and it is from a 1986 car. I found a number of differences between the two engines the biggest being the compression ratio. 86 use different pistons and have a different DME. I have called Porsche and they confirm it is the wrong engine also my local Porsche specialist said he would not be happy to fit that engine. So the question is would you fit it?
Rant
- Thread starter homesea
- Start date
pauljmcnulty
Active member
There was a case last year where a specialist was taken to court over an engine supplied that wasn't, if I remember correctly, as described on the receipt. It was resolved in favour of the buyer, but only after a protracted legal case that cost far more than he ever got back.
You've had a run of bad luck on that car - but I'd personally think hard before taking legal action. The area of used parts is a minefield - you are certainly entitled to a refund on the parts, but labour and other consequential losses are another matter.
Have you spoken to one of the Technical Advisors to make sure there's not a solution?
You've had a run of bad luck on that car - but I'd personally think hard before taking legal action. The area of used parts is a minefield - you are certainly entitled to a refund on the parts, but labour and other consequential losses are another matter.
Have you spoken to one of the Technical Advisors to make sure there's not a solution?
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Sorry - just noticed the non-member bit!
The PCGB has technical advisors as part of the member benefits.
The PCGB has technical advisors as part of the member benefits.
I see, I have spoken to porsche garages, mechanics and I am a Mech Eng myself so know a thing or two. I have gone through all the changes between the engines and the only way that it can be run correctly would be with the DME of a 86 car and this could lead to all other kind of problems with wirring and the dash etc.
The easy thing to do would be take the engine out and take it back to them for a full refund, but this would cost more then the engine is worth.
The easy thing to do would be take the engine out and take it back to them for a full refund, but this would cost more then the engine is worth.
I had the same problem with a gear box on a BMW, fitted it and the ratios were wrong as i could only do 60mph top speed , breakers took it back and supplied another one, fitted that and guess what same again [
], sent it back and said forget it i want a refund and the money it cost to fit the two gear boxes... they laughed and said no chance and refunded the mony for the gear box...i bothered them for four weeks calling and writing but got know where.. the last letter i sent to them explained that if they didnt pay i would take them to a small claims court, no response... S0 got on the internet issued a sumons via the courts web site which cost me 80 quid... the day after they recived the sumons i had the full amount of money land on my door step which was nearly 900 notes for all my fitting cost and the court sumons.Result [] ..The advice i give you is every time you talk or attempt to talk to these guys write every thing down... times of calls and anything that was said in any conversation by you or them... this way if you end up in court you will have everything you need for the case. Hope it dosnt come to this though. I would send the engine back and purchase the correct one else where. Good luck.[]
], sent it back and said forget it i want a refund and the money it cost to fit the two gear boxes... they laughed and said no chance and refunded the mony for the gear box...i bothered them for four weeks calling and writing but got know where.. the last letter i sent to them explained that if they didnt pay i would take them to a small claims court, no response... S0 got on the internet issued a sumons via the courts web site which cost me 80 quid... the day after they recived the sumons i had the full amount of money land on my door step which was nearly 900 notes for all my fitting cost and the court sumons.Result [] ..The advice i give you is every time you talk or attempt to talk to these guys write every thing down... times of calls and anything that was said in any conversation by you or them... this way if you end up in court you will have everything you need for the case. Hope it dosnt come to this though. I would send the engine back and purchase the correct one else where. Good luck.[]
Peter Empson
PCGB Member
I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. What sort of response have the breakers given when you told them of their error?
I have a similar story about breakers. A few years back after a gearbox failure JZ managed to secure a box from one of the more famous Porsche breakers for me. This box was apparently taken from one of their staffs own cars and was claimed to be mechanically excellent. Needless to say after fitting this rather expensive box it was found to be absolute junk, there was no way it had been used as it had suffered a severe failure previously. Thankfully because JZ had effectively supplied it and were dealing direct with the breakers this didn't incur me with extra fitting and shipping costs. Ultimately I got a working box from the breakers after a bit of hassle although this was not worth the cost as it was itself rather poorly and didn't last more than a few thousand miles.
I have a similar story about breakers. A few years back after a gearbox failure JZ managed to secure a box from one of the more famous Porsche breakers for me. This box was apparently taken from one of their staffs own cars and was claimed to be mechanically excellent. Needless to say after fitting this rather expensive box it was found to be absolute junk, there was no way it had been used as it had suffered a severe failure previously. Thankfully because JZ had effectively supplied it and were dealing direct with the breakers this didn't incur me with extra fitting and shipping costs. Ultimately I got a working box from the breakers after a bit of hassle although this was not worth the cost as it was itself rather poorly and didn't last more than a few thousand miles.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Not trying to be patronising - if the engine won't fit then it won't fit.
I'd try to be very amicable with the breakers and hope to get their help to find a more suitable engine. I'm not sure what else to suggest!
peanut
Active member
not a member eh !
well basically then you're stuffed....
not very charitable is it lol.
Homesea if I were you I'd give Bert Gear a ring. if he doesn't know he's sure to put you on to someone who does. Also give a few of the Porsche specialists a call. You've nothing to lose. They are fitting second hand engines every day.
Try Parragon in Sussex they should know the problems and pitfalls.
The problem with a s/u engine is you don't know how its going to run until its all fitted and hooked up. You could find after spending ages getting parts and fiddling around coddling it all together that you can't get it to run or its blown.!
A second hand enine with no pedigree is a huge risk and doubly so in your case because it s not even the correct one for your car.
My advice would be if its a know good motor try to fit it. If not, return it for credit and get another ,preferably one that you can see running at least. You should have no difficulty getting your money back and as its their mistake they should give you reasonable out of pocket expenses ie haulage costs.
You might try buying a complete car off ebay. That way for £300-500 you could get a runner that you can test and get all the rest of the car to break for spares or fund the engine swop.
best of luck mate ,
oh don't forget to ask our American cousins on rennlist over the pond. You can bet someone over there has tried this conversion.
pauljmcnulty
Active member
Peanut - sorry but I'm not having a good week and you're not helping.....[
]Can you please explain to me just why I should allow all the member benefits that 1300 or so 944 owners pay £51 per year for to be freely available to everyone on this forum?
I'm not being uncharitable, and in fact PM'd Homesea last night. Why is it uncharitable to have benefits for Club members? Would you like me to arrange a free subscription to the Club magazine for you? Allow you access to the Club staff and offices? Get you the same discounts on suppliers?
One of the benefits of the Club, and the register, is that we have several specialists who give their own time freely to offer members technical advice. They'd probably not thank me for giving their numbers out in public so everyone can keep them on the phone for hours. If, however, a member of this forum, or Titanic, has a problem which isn't answered on the forum I'd always PM them contacts to try.
I don't understand why you have a problem with the fact that this forum is used by Club members, and is primarily a resource for them, when you have totally free access to it within the forum terms and conditions - which are hardly enforced anyway! You are a valued forum member like everyone else, but please don't sit here claiming that you're hard done by for not getting free Club membership.
Thanks!
Alpine
New member
Homesea
Assuming that the engine cannot stay in the car, I think it will come down to what you agreed with the breaker's yard when you bought the engine from them. If you specifically said that you wanted an 07 spec engine, then they are in breach of contract by supplying something different to you. You are entitled to be put back into the position pre-breach of contract, so they should agree to pay for the engine to be removed and re-imburse the cost of the engine and the cost of you having it fitted.
I would put that to them and see what they say. They might accept straight away that they have sold the wrong thing to you, in which case you should be ok. If not then you might need to issue a claim in the County Court. The proceedure is not the complicated; if it is a claim for under £5k it will go through the small claims track; you can issue the claim yourself online. If you are going to do that, I suggest you get a written report from your mechanic stating why the engine is wrong and why it will not work in your car. Take lots photos, and put it all in a letter to the breaker's yard to give them a chance to put things right. That will go in your favour if you do need to go to court.
Hope that helps.
Assuming that the engine cannot stay in the car, I think it will come down to what you agreed with the breaker's yard when you bought the engine from them. If you specifically said that you wanted an 07 spec engine, then they are in breach of contract by supplying something different to you. You are entitled to be put back into the position pre-breach of contract, so they should agree to pay for the engine to be removed and re-imburse the cost of the engine and the cost of you having it fitted.
I would put that to them and see what they say. They might accept straight away that they have sold the wrong thing to you, in which case you should be ok. If not then you might need to issue a claim in the County Court. The proceedure is not the complicated; if it is a claim for under £5k it will go through the small claims track; you can issue the claim yourself online. If you are going to do that, I suggest you get a written report from your mechanic stating why the engine is wrong and why it will not work in your car. Take lots photos, and put it all in a letter to the breaker's yard to give them a chance to put things right. That will go in your favour if you do need to go to court.
Hope that helps.
The basic argument is that the wrong engine has been supplied so a refund of the cost of that shuld be given. I think thats straightforward.
I don;t agree with the idea that the fitting costs will be recovereable. Homeseas mechanic only realised there was a problem after he ifitted the engine. If a claim is made for the cost of fitting I'd expect the supplier to argue that the fitting costs are not their liability because a "reasonably competent" mechanic could have identified the problem before fitting.
So I suggest the mechanic be asked to explain why he didn't check that!
I don;t agree with the idea that the fitting costs will be recovereable. Homeseas mechanic only realised there was a problem after he ifitted the engine. If a claim is made for the cost of fitting I'd expect the supplier to argue that the fitting costs are not their liability because a "reasonably competent" mechanic could have identified the problem before fitting.
So I suggest the mechanic be asked to explain why he didn't check that!
Didn't expect so many replies and Paul has been very helpful, I will give you a ring over the weekend if that's ok. Right a few things to sort out first. To answer the last question first I don't think any mechanic can spot a different compression ratio with out testing it and why would they? I have called the breakers yard a few times and they say nothing is wrong with the engine. Well nothing seems "˜wrong' with the engine apart from it's the wrong one. Then they used terms like "˜just run with it' and "˜VW only made two different engines an 8v and 16v so it must be right'. I told them I had spoken with Porsche and with several Porsche specialist and they told me it was wrong and not to use it. The breakers told me they had in witting[/b] from 5 different Porsche specialists that the 86 engines were no different to an 88. When I asked them who they had spoken to they would not give me the names, guess they had not called anyone. They started out by telling me I wouldn't get a penny out of them then latter said they would refund the money if I took the engine back. But my point was who will pay the labour cost and the cost of parts already added to the "˜new' engine. To be honest I can absorb the cost that's not an issue, what annoys me is the number of companies who think they can get away with selling poor or wrong parts or just ripping people off all together. As to taking them to court I am not sure if I can spend much time on it at the moment, but I have already filled out all the forms online. Also about writing everything down they say on the phone, that's not a problem as I called them from a works phone that records and tracks all calls anyway. I might email them a copy of this post.
peanut
Active member
sorrrrrrrrrryy[ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
Peanut - sorry but I'm not having a good week and you're not helping.....[
]so just sit down here and relax PJ take a deep breath and tell /uncle Peanut all your woes [
]just ribbin ya guys thats all. I try to help everyone if I can including members lol...[
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