Rear end sliding out

Outrun944 · Dec 9, 2013

For the first time in years of 944 ownership the rear end slid out.

Managed to regain control quickly and narrowly avoided accident with a biker :/ I'm still a little shook up but now having a crisis of confidence in her.

The thing is I was only reasonably accelerating up to 30mph from a stop on a mid sized roundabout, nothing crazy. Chucked it round country bends at far far worse let's be honest. Road was dry as a bone, no loose gravel and didn't see any grease or spillages (who knows tho).

What I can say is that very recently put two nice grippy new tyres on the front and 2 days before had the exhaust centre box which had holes in replaced (might have had less power). The two rear tyres which look OK with plenty of tread are mis-matched makes and tread (yep not good and been meaning to change them).

I was thinking maybe I should swap the front and rear wheels over so there's more grip at the back.

What do you guys think?

Cheers

Al

944 man · Dec 9, 2013

Buy two more new tyres, check your pressures regularly and be aware that a roundabout id the most likely place for a diesel spill.

pauljmcnulty · Dec 9, 2013

How old are the rears? Date will be on the sidewall.

Melv · Dec 9, 2013

The two rear tyres which look OK with plenty of tread are mis-matched makes and tread (yep not good and been meaning to change them).

I think you've answered your own question....[8|]

Craigybaby · Dec 9, 2013

Why does Mismatched tyres matter in the dry? Can't get my head around the logic.

Andy97 · Dec 9, 2013

Also consider a set of winter tyres - well worth it

supersport · Dec 9, 2013

I would go back and "try" again!

This time of year with lower temperatures on very smooth tarmac it is easily done. My Golf is all over the place at the moment, although on warn tyres. Had the 944 out last week on daily duty and although not bone dry was possible to loose the backend/wheel spin very easily which generally is quite hard.

Even a little diesel will cause this, I have had happen twice, front end on one occasion and rear on the other.

edh · Dec 9, 2013

ORIGINAL: 944 man

be aware that a roundabout id the most likely place for a diesel spill.

I reckon this is the most likely explanation. Very unusual for the back end of a 944 to let go at low speeds and only happened to me once, on a roundabout very close to my home, probably no more than 20mph.

Mismatched tyres may not be ideal, but you'd have to be pushing on for it to make a difference. You can check the tyres for a manufacturing date - they certainly do get harder as they get older.

eddieedmo · Dec 9, 2013

Diesel by the sounds of it.Happened to me recently and a 4 wheel crab slide on a roundabout, couldn't do anything about it.Luckily nothing else about.Went around and with sun on road could see diesel glistening like ice !

Nick

J.C944TurboMan · Dec 9, 2013

My S2 kicks out 2nd to 3rd in the dry on a roundabout and try's to kill me 1st 2 nd and 3rd in the wet !! That is the pleasure of raw power to the rear wheels

I would not have it any other way .
If you want a pansy's car , buy a front will Nissan Micra , then again you might get under steer on a roundabout and then your only option is to buy a push bike .

Hairyarse · Dec 9, 2013

My beemer has been sliding about a bit lately, with traction light coming on a lot more in this last week without driving like a beemer driver! I think it's just the time of year, crud on the road etc

DC911SC · Dec 9, 2013

no mention of psi you are running on the rear tyres, over inflated maybe?

head for blackcircles or camskill for new tyres!

pauljmcnulty · Dec 9, 2013

My Lux was on the much-berated P6000s. They were probably as old as the car, were as hard as nails, and didn't show any appreciable wear after me putting at least 20K miles on them. Tref swears by them for durability, and when new I don't think they're a problem, but old tyres really do harden up, and that's a massive issue if everything else is also conspiring against them.

I had less traction than any other 944 I ever followed. It was almost comedy-oversteer, but I loved it as it was so predictable, and I was never going fast enough to do any damage. If you've ever seen the simulated ice-driving thing where the car is jacked up on castors? That's exactly it.

At this time of year, it's often sunny and dry. But, the temps are way down, so there's no heat in the tyres, The air moisture is high, and roads tend to be damp even if they don't look it. Side roads, or country roads, might have frost patches in shady areas, or wet leaves, it all adds to the likelyhood of losing grip, or "skidding in to an accident", to put it in brutal terms.

I'd like to know the age of the tyres, and if they're some crappy budget brand of course. I think it's most likely that we've just hit the low temps that show up old tyres, where new ones might be a bit more forgiving.

J.C944TurboMan · Dec 9, 2013

Oopss ! Rear end sliding out big time !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWjjhNuWq8o

Dunkin' Donuts ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iel5rgQbXc4

Grand finale burnt out the rear tyres ! They were very low anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EVrUQ3qYlk

Please note these stunts where performed in safe areas away from the general public ! In private industrial areas !

You should not attempt to drive like this on public roads !! The Stig was driving

Neil Haughey · Dec 10, 2013

Easily done this time of year. I very nearly stuck a hire car in the hedge last week, armful of extra lock seemed to do enough to get the front end round the corner and avoid the ditch. Car was a brand new Insignia as well, I would like to say it is a rubbish car but it had fairly new contisportcontact 3s on it and I can't believe they have that little grip or the chassis is that bad.

WBray · Dec 10, 2013

Could it be down to poor camber on the roundabout? We have a roundabout up the road from me with horrible camber caught me out in the 944 once so far in the wet and seen plenty of other cars that have been binned on it.

Outrun944 · Dec 11, 2013

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
How old are the rears? Date will be on the sidewall.

You know, I'm embarrassed to say I'm struggling to find it! I know I'm looking for a 4 digit code (or gulp 3 digit code if it's pre 2000) on either but can't find it! Week and year manufactured, nearest was 6002 which can't be the one. I am guessing though that they're probably well over 5 years old.

ORIGINAL: Craigybaby
Why does Mismatched tyres matter in the dry? Can't get my head around the logic.

That's what I was thinking but reading through the topic and thinking about this there's lot of variables to consider. I don't think I'll get a magic answer now unless I can turn her into a DeLorean and jump back to 6pm Saturday and inspect the roundabout!

ORIGINAL: J.C944TurboMan
If you want a pansy's car , buy a front will Nissan Micra , then again you might get under steer on a roundabout and then your only option is to buy a push bike .

Well yes, quite. I'm no pansy but I guess it shocked me a lot having never done that before at such a low speed.

ORIGINAL: strath44
no mention of psi you are running on the rear tyres, over inflated maybe?

I checked the PSI first thing the next day, they were all under the recommended level (29/36).

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
My Lux was on the much-berated P6000s. They were probably as old as the car, were as hard as nails, and didn't show any appreciable wear after me putting at least 20K miles on them. Tref swears by them for durability, and when new I don't think they're a problem, but old tyres really do harden up, and that's a massive issue if everything else is also conspiring against them. I had less traction than any other 944 I ever followed. It was almost comedy-oversteer, but I loved it as it was so predictable, and I was never going fast enough to do any damage. If you've ever seen the simulated ice-driving thing where the car is jacked up on castors? That's exactly it.

That's funny, the two front tyres I replaced were P6000s! Only scary moments I had in them was in snow and ice.

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
At this time of year, it's often sunny and dry. But, the temps are way down, so there's no heat in the tyres, The air moisture is high, and roads tend to be damp even if they don't look it. Side roads, or country roads, might have frost patches in shady areas, or wet leaves, it all adds to the likelyhood of losing grip, or "skidding in to an accident", to put it in brutal terms. I'd like to know the age of the tyres, and if they're some crappy budget brand of course. I think it's most likely that we've just hit the low temps that show up old tyres, where new ones might be a bit more forgiving.

Yes that all makes sense and I guess I'll put it down to 'diesel on the road'. Maybe I'll find a quiet safe space to test it out and get some confidence after the New Year.
As above, I think they're old. They're mismatched and I'm guessing budget brands. One of them is a make I can find hardly anything about "Dark Horse". Given how much the P6000s were worn down and these still have a lot of tread - I'm guessing really hard constitution of rubber.
I think I'll put on the same as the fronts (Firestones) in the new year when the worst of winter has passed, and stick with school-run crappy Rav4 for a while.

ORIGINAL: WBray
Could it be down to poor camber on the roundabout? We have a roundabout up the road from me with horrible camber caught me out in the 944 once so far in the wet and seen plenty of other cars that have been binned on it.

Another possibility and variable here. Yes I think there is a bit of a camber actually.

Outrun944 · Dec 11, 2013

To close this off from my end anyway....

Should I consider switch the wheels over? And putting the new grippy tyres on the rear given it's rear wheel drive?

Is there an argument that you need as-much or more grip on front given when you break and the weight of the engine that's where all the force will be etc?

J.C944TurboMan · Dec 11, 2013

This time of year any spilt Diesel , spilt Antifreeze on the roads can resurface due to dampness on the roads .
You can fit the best tyres money can buy and fit pressure regulator sensors and all sorts to your rear wheels ,
and you might still get a rear tail twitch on a roundabout this time of year .
I friend who owned a Mitsubishi EVO 4 wheel drive would experience 4 wheel drift on some roundabouts this time of year , due to the roads been
very greasy and slippery .
Drive with extra caution and be prepared for this type of event occurring with a rear wheel drive car .

Snow chains with small spikey studs !!! That should sort it

944 man · Dec 11, 2013

ORIGINAL: Outrun944

To close this off from my end anyway....

Should I consider switch the wheels over? And putting the new grippy tyres on the rear given it's rear wheel drive?

Is there an argument that you need as-much or more grip on front given when you break and the weight of the engine that's where all the force will be etc?

I am the antithesis of a PH tyre fascist, but I think it is obvious that you should buy two new tyres! You should also check your pressures regularly and read the road better.