Rear Mail Oil Seal

Mark Davies · Sep 1, 2008

OK I have a very long history of being in dispute with Reading PC which I wont bore you all with, but in summary I have had the following Rear Main Oil seal changes on my (from new) C2.

2001 Car puchased
2003 RMS no.1 replaced under original warranty
2004 RMS no.2 replaced after huge amount of time, effort and correspondence on my part at no cost to me.
2006 RMS no.3 replaced at no cost as when no.2 was put in Reading PC promised to replace it if it failed within 2 years.
2008 RMS no.4 has failed and reading PC want just shy of £1000 to replace it. Reading PC will not budge on this issue and expect me to pay. Apparantly there is no warranty period on work done under warranty!!!!. I assume thats because they bodge it rather than doing a proper job? The car has done a mind blowing 43k miles so thats about 8k per oil seal. Quality or what?

Anyway Porsche wont be getting another penny out of me on this and I just havent got the time to argue the toss as I did in 2004, so does anyone know of a good independent I can use. I see Northway are fairly near me, has anyone got any views on them?

I also need new rear brake pads and a geometry check which Reading PC will also not see a penny of.

Rgds

Mark

NXI20 · Sep 1, 2008

Ray Northway or Tony Wright (Wrightune) in Wallingford. Both highly recommended as I'm sure others here will confirm.

spyderman · Sep 1, 2008

Would you say that you drive your C2 particularly hard? I ask as there is some suggestion that a hard-driven engine becomes more susceptable to the problems. There is obviously a design issue here - there should never be any question from Porsche about replacement.

Mark Davies · Sep 1, 2008

Hi Spyderman

No I dont drive it particularly hard and it hasnt been on the track at all.

Yes I agree this is a design flaw that Porsche have chosen to ignore and has hit countless people. It took me about 2 months and endless letters,phone calls, e-mails to get it replaced for free by Porsche in 2004. I also got them to guarantee their work for 2 years, so when it failed again in 2006 they had to replace it for nothing. Now its gone again they say that because the last repair was done under warranty there is not a warranty for a warranty repair!!!

I simply havent got the time to argue this again with them and I think my chances of winning are slim, so will get it done by an Indy instead. Thats if I get it done at all, as I havent actually had to put any oil in it since its last service a year ago. The seal may have failed but it must be leaking such a tiny amount I think I might just leave it for now.

They could learn an awful lot from Lexus. I had some bubbling on an alloy wheel 2 months outside the 3 year warranty period. Lexus didnt replace the wheel for nothing oh no, they replaced ALL 4 wheels for nothing, now that is customer service.

Mark

Mark Davies · Sep 1, 2008

Thanks NXI20

I'll give them a call

Mark_Bennett · Sep 1, 2008

Unless you are losing oil, you may as well wait until the clutch needs doing.

BTW I've had 6 RMS seals and 1 Intermediate seals done, there is though a suspicion that some of the RMS changes were misdiagnosed intermediate shaft seal failures....
All were done under warranty, but I have kept up the extended warranty.

Mark Davies · Sep 1, 2008

Hi Mark

Yes I had a clutch done on one of the previous times they replaced the RMS. I didnt bother with the extended warranty and I think I'm probably ahead as nothing else has needed doing that the warranty would cover.

My arguement with Porsche is:

a) Its a fundamental design flaw
or
b) They are unable to fit the replacement correctly

They are now playing the 'oh the car is 7 years old' card on me. I really wish I had the time to argue this one, but it was a real struggle to get them to accept there is a problem somewhere (a or b?) in 2004.

Rgds

Mark

Tool Pants · Sep 2, 2008

Same in the US. There is no warranty on work done under warranty. Here if you pay to have the seal replaced then you get a 2 year warranty on parts and labor. But if the seal is replaced under warranty or goodwill, meaning you do not pay for it, you do not get another 2 years.

The 4th generation seal with the 997 part number came out in 2005. This is still the current replacement seal. When your seal was replaced in 2006 do you kow if the 997 seal was used?

DSM · Sep 2, 2008

If the extended warranty is maintained are future replacements then covered?

Mark_Bennett · Sep 2, 2008

ORIGINAL: DSM

If the extended warranty is maintained are future replacements then covered?

Yes, if you have a warranty at the time the seal needs replacing...

Mark Davies · Sep 2, 2008

Hi Toolpants

I really have no idea what particular seal they used in 2006, and to be quite honest that isnt the point here.

You would have thought that a firm as rich in engineering as Porsche would be able to make a seal that worked first time all the time. Its not difficult (or perhaps it is). The annoying thing is that they know damn well there is a problem, but every time mine has failed they act as if its a rare as rocking horse sh1t. I find it insulting to my intelligence that they make me go back to square one and explain the history of my car all over again.

Aaaaarrrggghhhh"!!!!!

Mark

Paul Fraser · Sep 2, 2008

If it's not leaking oil onto your floor it's (a) not worth getting done until your clutch is needing replaced and (b) not worth raising your blood pressure about. Porsche don't give a sh1t, and you'll just end up putting yourself in an early grave.

Rodney Naghar · Sep 3, 2008

ORIGINAL: Paul Fraser

If it's not leaking oil onto your floor it's (a) not worth getting done until your clutch is needing replaced and (b) not worth raising your blood pressure about. Porsche don't give a sh1t, and you'll just end up putting yourself in an early grave.

+1

Tool Pants · Sep 6, 2008

When you are ready for the next attempt to reseal your motor, look for a happy face.....

Mercurial · Sep 6, 2008

It seems that there are flaws with a variety of different parts and I have often womdered what would happen if the manufacturer was Japanese. That one has just been answered (see the comment about Lexus above).

I had a leaking header tank replaced not long ago and very soon afterwards it went again. Happily the indy I use replaced it FOC, and I am very grateful to him for that, but discussing it with him and also the OPC, both said that the tanks go "all the time". If that's the case then Porsche should simply accept there's a design fault and replace them FOC.

The Porsche is the only vehicle I've ever owned where it's been necessary to replace the header tank (at all, let alone twice!), so it stands to reason that, similar to the issues so many have experienced with the RMS, something isn't quite right.

Tool Pants · Sep 6, 2008

The plastic header tank is also a problem with the 986. One of the mechanics I know replaced one on a 986 and had to replace it again 2 months later. On the 986 Porsche is on the 8th version of the tank, and they still split and leak. Made by the German company Geiger, and I think Geiger also makes the 996 tank.

Other problems I can think of. Regulator, water pump, pulley bearings, ignition switch, wheel bearings, oil separator, motor mount (on 986), air flow sensor, and airbag light. With Porsche it is not enough to pay for the car once. You have to pay for it a second time fixing Porsche's problems.

On Marks oil seal. If it is the rear seal is leaking after 4 replacements, then he has one of the problem motors. There are people who have had more than 4 replacement seals. Crankshaft is not concentric to the seal, and there is no fix. More so if the last seal was the 997 version.

But in fairness not all M96 motors leak. I took this picture yesterday of a 1999 C2 with 140,000 miles. It was in for a clutch replacement, this being the second replacement. The engine had no leaks. Due to the mileage the owner elected to have it re-sealed anyway. New 997 seal - the tool to install it is in place in the picture. Intermediate shaft flange/seal. Blue case bolts and blue bolts for the flange.

Now watch. With Murphy's Law it is going to leak.

Michael Downing · Sep 6, 2008

ORIGINAL: Rodney Naghar

ORIGINAL: Paul Fraser

If it's not leaking oil onto your floor it's (a) not worth getting done until your clutch is needing replaced and (b) not worth raising your blood pressure about. Porsche don't give a sh1t, and you'll just end up putting yourself in an early grave.

Click to expand...

+1

+1 more

Black80XSA · Sep 7, 2008

Take it to Northway - great service and price, using 'technicians' with real world knowledge and years of experience.

Out of interest Scousers 8 year old 996 is on its 8th seal, but this one has been in for nearly 2 years without issue. Its not a standard seal, but has so far proved a solution (and it is a Porsche part) !

Diesel130 · Sep 7, 2008

ORIGINAL: Mark Davies

... I really have no idea what particular seal they used in 2006, and to be quite honest that isnt the point here.

Ok, but if you get it replaced by an indi and then see that the failed part was not the latest version (i.e. if they put in a pre-2005 seal in 2006), then you'd surely have a case against them ...

Tool Pants · Sep 7, 2008

I think Scouser had 7 replacement seals. He says 8 because he counts the original seal when the car was new. I believe his latest is a GT3 seal installed backwards, but I believe a GT3 seal is supposed to be installed backwards. He has been quiet lately so it must not be leaking, or the engine finally ran out of oil.

Back in 2004 he was tied with a local Boxster owner named Jean with a 2000 2.7. Jean had 5 rear seals replaced, same number as Berny back then. Jean also had 1 intermediate shaft seal replaced. Jean even bought a floor jack so he could look under the car for dripping oil. Use to send me pictures. I thought he was sleeping under the car waiting for a drop of oil to hit him on the head.

Jean's first replacement seal was at 30,000 miles. Second at 38,000. Third at 49,000. Fourth at 50,000. Fifth at 57,000 miles. Still leaked, and our local dealership finally gave up replacing seals. This was in 2004 and the 997 seal did not exist at that time.

Porsche authorized a replacement engine for Jean, a rebuilt one. Rebuilt engine was put in and it had a vibration problem. Second rebuilt engine put in - same problem. Third rebuilt put in - same problem. This was done at our local dealership that I have been going to for 9 years, so I know the mechanics that worked on Jean's Boxster. Finally the shop foreman who has worked for Porsche 20 years and owns a Boxster got involved, but he could not fix the vibration problem. I was there in the shop when the foreman was playing around with the VarioCam on replacement engine #3, with no luck. So much for the quality rebuilds.

Porsche was now out of luck. Jean's warranty had expired in 2004 before the first engine replacement, so all the replacement engines were goodwilled due to the history of seal replacements. Jean's car had a third rebuilt goodwilled engine in that vibrated, and the vibration could be duplicated at the shop.

Jean told me Porsche authorized a new engine on a car out of warranty, but by this time he did not trust anyone. At Jean's request I had to go down to the shop and find replacement engine #4, still in a box, and make sure it was new. I found it. It was for a tiptronic so it was re-wired for a manual transmission.

Replacement engine #4, the new one, was put in October 2004. It does not leak, or the engine finally ran out of oil.