Rebuild the engine or get a refund?

[John Sims]

It was all going well until OP decided not to have the rebuild. Had he availed himself of the fine service offered by the dealer all would be good, much praise (rightly), etc etc.

Who knows what happened since the car was returned. IIRC the Porsche engine (well at least the old ones) could have bores swapped out without too much issue. I don’t know (neither an I really interested) how the new flat engines work but, considering their configuration, I doubt it would be a mammoth job.

Another £1500 for a car with a rebuilt engine sounds like a deal to me. I don't understand the issue.

If I was the dealer, and I knew the bores were shot, I certainly wouldn't put the fact in an advertisement. I would wait until I had some interest in the car and then say "Oh I believe the bores are less than wonderful. Would you like us to have the engine rebuilt or, if you are happy as is we can give you a discount on the price." That is how things work. It's not being underhanded or anything else. You don't cough up £1500, or what ever, to ensure a car is absolutely pristine for it to sit in stock for 12 months. You wait until you know the car might be sold and then act accordingly.

Ian, you bough a car, you didn't think it was up to the standard you thought it should be and returned it and got your money back. You had 6 months Porsche motoring for free. That all sounds pretty damn solid to me. I can't see what you think the dealer has done wrong.

 

[Ian.Mc]

1. fine service offered by the dealer all would be good, much praise (rightly) After several emails with no meaningful response, it took a firm letter pointing out the breach of the Consumer Rights (2015) having managed to contact the previous owner to establish that the condition existed before. Only then did he make these offers.

2. I was told that if I had gone for the rebuild option that I could expect a wait of at least 2 months due to his workshop being very busy and a waiting list at Hartech of 4 weeks+. So doing the job in 5 days over a weekend is unlikely.

3. Yes it could still be knackered and there is some negotiation for the next buyer.

4. While I had the car I spent about £800 and the worry for the last month thinking I had a £5-£7 grand bill, so not quite free use of a Porsche.

Sounds really solid to me.......sorry Mr Dealer as I have misjudged you.

 

[rob.kellock]

Ian, sorry to hear that your Cayman experience was not what you had hoped. I hope you find another Porsche soon and enjoy some happier motoring.

I have been asked to clarify the Club's position here and without wishing to debate the rights or wrongs of it, our Forum Terms and Conditions are pretty clear and set out at the bottom of the page:

"3.0 Content:

3.1 When using this forum, you agree not to:

3.1.1 Post insulting, threatening or defamatory material or material likely to cause undue annoyance, provocation, upset or embarrassment to any reasonable person.

3.1.2 Name companies, or individuals, in relation to accusations of malpractice, fraud or other criminal or civil offences."

We as a Club are a large organisation with significant financial assets and we publish the Forum. Financially, we are worth suing. As legal advisor (officially and unofficially) for the last 5 years, we have sued nobody and nobody has sued us so we seem to be doing something right! Our Forum rules may seem over cautious but as others have alluded to, we are trying to protect members as well as ourselves.

Other popular sites such as Pistonheads and also some private Porsche related Facebook pages have identical "no name and shame" policies. In this case, I would simply ask all posters to respect our moderators' decisions.

Many thanks.

 

[Ian.Mc]

Rob

Many thanks for your kind words.

I understand and respect the club rules from the earlier post by tscaptain (admin), that is why I have made no attempt to repeat the name of the seller.

Forums like this are fantastic, allowing massive help and guidance with a huge amount of knowledge between members and would not want to risk any legal action so if I have overstepped the mark please accept my apologies.

B Rgds

 

[rob.kellock]

Thanks Ian.

Absolutely no need to apologise.

I hope you find a good car to enjoy, I did 25000 happy miles in my 981 Cayman S, they are wonderful cars.

Best wishes.

 

[ChrisW]

So what evidence is there that the dealer is being anything other than completely honest ?

You banked the cheque, waited for it to clear ... and then assumed that the car as advertised was not going to have it's re-built engine ?

Were I the dealer, I could be complaining about your very disrespectful assumption ... except that its very hard for any dealer to defend themselves because every action can be interpreted and misinterpreted in public.

When did you stop beating your wife ??

Oh I'm sorry, it was only a dealer that you were beating .... ??

"if I have overstepped the mark please accept my apologies" .... will the dealer accept this ? If innocent I'll bet he's had a pretty torrid week.

Should he just have to suck it up ? When this could be just the kind of reaction that could drive the goodness out of the honest ... ?

 

[Ian.Mc]

Hi Guys. Thought you may like an update: All good for me with regards the dealer, as I took the car back last Wednesday 24th Jan in exchange for a cheque (for the full amount paid when I bought). Wanted a clean break so no engine rebuild just money back. Cheque cleared in the bank today so I'm a happy bunny. Then............. I thought I would have look at the same dealers stock online as I am now searching for another car - guess what........... the same Cayman is now advertised with no mention of the engine problem, and £1400 more than I paid. They have been working really hard over the weekend and rebuilt it ??????? Be very careful if you are going to buy from: especially if its a Seal Grey - Cayman S - Reg: BB55 MCL

I would like to quote one of my earlier posts where I tried to report back as closure on my dilemma and hopefully help someone else. I seem to have got drawn into a deeper route than planned, expressing my personal feelings which I had originally had no intention to be public about. I think the assumptions and therefore comments directed at me by some people here without knowing the full story caused me to defend my later posts and has spiraled. My naivety on a large forum with such diverse opinion.

 

[pjb1962]

I think we need a bit of balance as Ian was trying to save another member a potential problem, which I think we should applaud.

Not sure if Chris read the whole post when he posted his comment, but if a dealer sells a car with a known fault & does not declare to the new owner then I'm sorry as far as I'm concerned he is hardly giving good customer service , but maybe I'm just a bit old fashioned and think honesty is the first building block of any relationship.

Ian I hope you find the car of your dreams.

 

[ChrisW]

In fairness I had not picked up on the suggestion that the previous owner had known that the engine had scoring before selling to the dealer.

Question ... did the dealer know this before selling the car to you Ian ?

If not, maybe the dealer was rolled over by the previous owner ??

The bottom line is that all the non GT3 / Turbo mezger engined 996 and 997 Gen 1 and their Boxster and Cayman derivatives can suffer this same problem.

So I’m sorry to say, if it worries you Ian, do not buy another.

Only the 997 and 987 Gen2 versions with the new 9A1 version engines and newer are considered “safe” from bore scoring and / or secondary shaft bearing failure.