RHD Silver RS for sale

[johnnyb]

Just trawling through the Pistonheads classifieds and came across this for sale.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2292638.htm

Looks very nice. Interesting to see that it was specced with a bucket for the driver and a sport seat for the passenger.... unless of course one or the other was fitted later.

 

[vic cohen]

I think i know this car , if so changed hands recently and now surplus to requirements ....100% original as it left factory , 3 fastidious owners .............
no connection me .

 

[carreraboy]

It would seem that 993RS prices are still trying to forge ahead the 964RS would be interesting to see what sells .... maybe Mr Wong will have this one, he has a big collection of RHD 964RS[]

 

[clubsport]

Des, don't forget there are twice as many 964RS made as 993...so preference aside it would be unlikely to expect parity?

 

[Richard Dawson]

Again aside from better/ worse / preference chat I also saw 993rs prices driven by the fact it differs more from a 993 carrera than a 964rs differs from a 964 carrera2? And as a consequence building a replica would be dearer too

Certainly for a lhd car there is still not much change in taking a good 993 carrera and adding all bits to make an rs rep ?

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: Richard Dawson

I also saw 993rs prices driven by the fact it differs more from a 993 carrera than a 964rs differs from a 964 carrera2?

In what way?

I'd expect building an accurate 964RS rep and 993RS rep are both similar.....in that they both cost too much and you still don't have an original!

 

[Richard Dawson]

Well if you dig out the Porsche spec sheets you will see the much deeper changes on a 993 but for starters an extra 200 cc in the engine over STD car, 5 suspension links each side with upgraded bushes in 2 and mods to 1 compared to 1 arm each side, turbo brake system, front hubs, rear glass without heater elements, body kit, ( at the time) varioram, lots of gearbox stuff like steel syncros
steering rack and brace

Not trying to be clever but I just understood a 983rs differed more than 964 rs from STD car so stands to reason a rep costs more?

 

[jason]

Never seen the spec sheet but I think many people BELIEVE a 964RS is very similar to a Carrera 2 when in fact some of the differences are......


Suspension:
- Suspension lowered 50mm front, 40mm rear
- Adjustable Bilstein dampers
- 40% stiffer springs
- Uniball solid top mounts
- Wheels 7.5" front and 9" rear Cup design magnesium alloy (ET55)
- Adjustable anti roll bars front (24mm, 5 way adjustable) and rear (18mm 3-way adjustable).
- Modified rear trailing arms "" shorter/limited travel
- Rear control arm adjustment plates are modified and are different left and right.
- Stiffer Lower Control Arm Bushings

Engine/Drivetrain:
- "˜Blueprinted' M64/03 engine which is a standard Carrera 2, 3.6l but using matched pistons and barrels.
- Single mass flywheel
- Single belt fan/alternator drive/pulley
- Flattened suction oil line "" oil tank to engine "" improves tyre clearance
- Solid rubber engine mounts
- Revised ECU adding 10bhp making 260bhp total (more aggressive timing advance characterstics)
- Hard rubber transmission mounts
- G50/10 gearbox with limited slip diff (Standard 20-100% Variable lock)
- Revised gearing: Shorter first and second gear ratios:
- First: 3.154
- Second: 1.695
- Third: 1.407
- Fourth: 1.086
- Fifth: 0.868
- Syncronizers made of steel, Modified for Quick Shifts
- Ring & pinion ration 3.444 (standard C2 is 3.333)
- Gear stick slightly taller and offset for a smoother shift ( offset 10 mm to left, 28 mm taller)
- Shift lever ratio - 3.4:1 (standard C2 is 4.0:1)
- Shift lever travel smaller - ± 52 mm (standard C2 is ± 62 mm)
- Driveshafts on the RS are hollow whereas standard C2 ones are solid
- RS driveshafts are longer to allow the use of centrelock wheels.
- Lightweight aluminium hubs

Braking system:
- Larger master cylinder diameter: 25.4 mm (standard C2 is 20.64 mm)
- Proportioning Valve Switch Pressure higher - 55 bar (standard C2 is 45bar)
- 3.3 Turbo brakes at the front and sport four pot callipers and drilled and ventilated discs.
- Rear brakes have four pot callipers but with smaller pistons
- Brake discs are cross-drilled and ventilated
- ABS is standard but features a modified ECU program.
- C4 style high pressure braking system with hydraulic booster / electric servo pump

Steering:
- No power steering on LHD

Body:
- Stiffened seam-welded shell - Seam welding and plating of the rear suspension mounting points, rear floor area, transmission and stabilizer mounts
- Removal of rear seat brackets, seat belt mounts, and trim brackets
- Aluminium front bonnet
- Aluminium stay to hold up front bonnet (no gas struts)
- No under-bonnet light
- Thinner gauge glass except to the front screen (3 mm versus 4.7 mm)
- Lighter doors with no reinforcing beams
- Wings have rolled arches
- Different middle section on rear bumper
- Front bumper has no headlight washers
- No bumper shocks
- Battery cut-off switch
- 36 AH battery
- Simplified wiring harness
- No central locking
- 77 litre standard or 92 litre long-range fuel tank
- Smaller 1litre capacity windscreen washer reservoir
- Front fog lights blanks (many RSs now have brake cooling ducts in place of the foglight blanks)
- No underseal
- 3 year anti-rust warranty
- Installation/modification of mounts for:
- Master electrical switch above the battery
- 1-liter windshield bottle in trunk
- Electro-hydraulic brake system
- Alternate mounting bracket for the ABS brain above the original location.
- Front tow hook
- Smaller 36-AH battery
- Inertial reel covers for the front seat belts

Interior:
- Leather covered lightweight Recaro bucket seats
- no back seats
- Lightweight thin-weave carpets with RS logo on rear bulkhead
- Minimal soundproofing
- RS steering wheel (RS logo horn pad)
- Lightweight door panels, no door bins, pull strap to open door.
- Radio optional - cars came with provision for fitting but no speakers and a simple blanking plate to cover the hole
- No interior light
- No heated rear screen (although the element there's no wiring or switch)
- No air-conditioning
- No sunroof
- No
- Manual winding windows
- Shortened front compartment carpet
- Simplified plastic cover for the front compartment bulkhead

 

[Richard Dawson]

I ve re read my post and didn't see any mention of a 64rs having few changes; I did say a 993 rs has more

The point was trying to suss why there us an apparent price difference

Have a look at the sPEC sheets and you will see there are just more changes

The body kit, larger engine and boosted brakes whether they add anything as regards the drive just add cost and if you used genuine bits alot of cost that was all I was suggesting

Not sure adjustable bilsteins feature though? I did also say not about which is better ; at least the spec changes on these later rs cars are easier to plot than those on a 2.7 rs which seemed to drift with later builds!

 

[jason]

Was not meaning to be confrontational Richard was just genuinely interested in what the 993RS differences are over the standard 993?

Getting the 964 list of differences was hard enough but nice to have. Would be cool to have the same for the 993 and to compare thats all[]

 

[Richard Dawson]

Reflecting is the rarity the key as thinking about it 996 gt3 cars are worth less all round but are relatively plentiful?

Though not sure how they differ from a standard car?

 

[jason]

996 GT3RS must be one of the rarest of all the RS?

 

[paul howells]

The teknic manual lists all the differences,it would be good if some one could post it up in its electronic format.Happy to lend a copy to some one to do this,as me and computers are not best friends!
No adjustable billies on a 964,would have been a good idea.
As you say the 2.7 evolved through its build life,unlike the later cars.

 

[Richard Dawson]

Only got manuals in hard copy so would be huge files if scanned?

How many 996gt3 rs cars made? Had a rummage on Internet and couldn't see figures

Always thought on a really long term basis rs porscheshop generally will hold up as they are all cars you'd put your last ever gallon of petrol in for the final ever petrol fuelled blast!

 

[jason]

113 UK RHD 996GT3RS which is tiny when you look at 'current' production numbers of 911's compared to 70's and 90's.

Not sure of total made but as a homologation I bet its not huge.

 

[Ferry Man]

ORIGINAL: carreraboy

It would seem that 993RS prices are still trying to forge ahead the 964RS

Could it simply be that the 993RS is such a lovely looking car....[]

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: Ferry Man

ORIGINAL: carreraboy

It would seem that 993RS prices are still trying to forge ahead the 964RS

Could it simply be that the 993RS is such a lovely looking car....[]


Well chaps, indeed the 993RS could be specced with many of the C2/4 extras, so some were a bit "touring" spec or German Dentist, a much more compliant car, easiers ride, more sure handling, and no sudden lurches (I have 993RS front suspension hee hee) so a far better all round slightly more sure footed softer ride ....

Anyway good to see the air-cooled RS market is still vety strong, both great cars...

 

[Richard Dawson]

That is the bottom line I suppose that there values do come from a "rea" desirability in that they are just some of the most exciting balanced all round cars ever in a way modern stuff just isn't.

That balance between reliability, lightness, power, handling, and driver involvement really peaked with these cars. As i say you really would sink your last gallon of petrol into one.

 

[ChrisW]

If you look at total number of 964RS v 993RS, it's true that there are twice as many 964RS plus 290 ish LHD CS/N-GT --- whilst the 993CS were included in the normal vin series.

But, the 964RS N-GT was only LHD and had it's own vin series, with broadly similar total number of 964 and 993 variants ---RHD's numbering around 10 worldwide ?

Looking at RHD, there are broadly similar numbers of 964RS and 993RS, each having a very different character --- whilst sharing an identical ethos.

One cannot underestimate the effect of the rear suspension assembly to the handling of the 993 series, forming as it does the basis for everything that has followed.

964RS the last of the traditional shaped 911, 993RS the last of the aircooled 911 ... defines them for me.

Did the respective 964 and 993 Cup cars precede their production RS variants ?

GT3 --- there are around 480 996GT3RS --- of which maybe 140 are RHD. GT3 Mk1's were the homologation vehicle for the 996 GT3R and there are only 28 UK RHD MkI Clubsports.

The 2004 996GT3RS then homologated the 996 GT3RSR which was the point at which the sequential gearbox took over from the previous H pattern in Porsche racing.

But long term, surely this Homologation route will define the most collectible cars ? We are talking racing DNA ....

This is a question, --- discuss []

 

[Richard Dawson]

Looking at values and desirability of most cars I think you are right that the rarest homologation items seem to end up the most sought after

Look at things like 2.8 rsr and 3.0 rsr or Ferrari 250gto....