Road Safety Initiative Committee

[oliver]

I think it would be a shame if the IoM lost its unique status, which currently allows people the discretion to drive as fast as is safe on the derestricted roads.

However, I think it is inevitable. I have never heard a convincing argument in favour of speed, but I don't think that introducing an upper limit will save lives.

In the UK we have become obsessed with speed limits, speed cameras, speed related statistics etc and you cannot pick up a newspaper or watch the news without more anti-speed propoganda. It is inevitable that the IoM authorities will feel out of step and follow the UK's example.

I wonder how long before they follow the UK authorities and start using it to generate revenue - or may be this is the motive.

Personally, I consider driving standards in the IoM to be better than average. Yes there are exceptions, mainly amongst the under-20s and over-70s, and lorries are a problem because the roads are generally equivalent to UK B roads. In my experience people in the IoM are attentive to bikes and fast cars and are more likely to observe the 30 mph limits than drivers in the UK.

However, take heart, there are still some great roads. My advice would be to forget high powered bikes and supercars and get something that provides lots of enjoyment at sensible speeds. As was said before, it should be the driving that's fun - not the speed.

 

[ClubSport 911]

I vote radical on this subject Oliver.

I suspect the road safety standards would (with time) be a whole lot lower, and implemented with a greater sense of driving skill, and road awareness, if there was a genuine staging process to obtaining a car license.

1) Be able to prive you had spent at least one year as a regular user of the roads on a pushbike
2) ..and then at least 2 years on a motor-bike.

Then, if you're still alive... you can put in for your car test.

I'm stunned that without any real demonstration of spatial skills for the guided weapon we call "CAR", there is not more thought to a process that places emphasis on developing these attributes with time. Namely, a 2 wheeled machine.

Of course... there will be a hundred exceptions and special cases, but I strongly feel time on a bike, pre-car, is very well spent with today's traffic densities & distractions.

Bikers are not all perfect, but IMHO a lot more observant to the environment of the road, than a great % of car drivers.

Of course, we can't afford to be half pregnant - this will need some working out to make it happen, but perhaps the principle merits discussion ?

 

[geoff Ives]

1) Be able to prive you had spent at least one year as a regular user of the roads on a pushbike
2) ..and then at least 2 years on a motor-bike.

Shame that this is not a viable option ( you can't force someone to ride a motorcycle ) However the basic thought process is a good one. Motorcyclists ( I can't bring myself to use the term 'Biker') are generally aware of road surface conditions. Most car drivers are not. In Ireland this yesr and in 2002 we had a fair number of broken wheels and suspesion in each case I asked the victim 'have you ever been a motorcyclist?' the answer was usually 'no'.

One small point. If the Island had a speed limit 10 years ago you would all still be in Region 18 as I would not have brought the Club over in 2000 and 2001.

See you all in August & September, TWICE, MGP and Manx Tour.
Geoff

 

[shadwell]

Guys

You are rather missing my point.

I'm not saying that it doesn't matter what speed you are doing as long as you know what you are doing. I'm saying that I'd rather someone drives past your children's school at 30mph, or less, because he feels that is an appropriate speed for the conditions and is vigilent and aware of the potential hazard should you children run about in the road, rather than dozy van driver doing 30mph because that's the speed limit and if he does that speed he will be safe.

Hence, I don't think you can set a speed limit for the Mountain. It depends upon the conditions, traffic density, that guy that has just finished walking in the mountains and is on his way back to his car etc. People should be trained to assess the correct speed for the conditions, not be conditioned to think anything below the speed limit and he's untouchable. You've already said that people ingnore the speed limits as they are, you can't police every inch of the roads so we have to teach people to think properly.

I'm sure that anything you or I think will go completely unnoticed by DoT so we'll have to wait and see.

Regards
Dave

 

[LK_991GTS]

I assume that the possible introduction of speed limits on previously unrestricted roads is with the intention of reducing accidents. Obvious, but flawed.

Well, how many times does it have to be said....such action will not "magically" reduce accidents; it's reducing the incidence of driving / riding likely to lead to accidents that is required and that involves policing for dangerous driving. Speed in fact has nothing to do with it. A blanket speed limit will never work, roads vary too much. Just look at the death rate increase on UK roads compared with the time before the introduction of speed cameras and ever lower blanket speed limits, especially on previously National Speed Limit roads. (Most deaths actually occur in 30mph limit areas.)

As mentioned above, take a look at http://www.safespeed.org.uk/

Please don't anyone think that such speed limit introduction / reduction is "inevitable". How can it be, when it's considered to be an inappropriate action by so many people?

 

[Julian Trinder]

The truth of the matter Lawrence is that we may well be in the minority in the IOM in not wanting a blanket speed limit. Most people probably don't care about the issue either way. What you have to remember is that our form of government is somewhat different to the UK and also voters are even more apathetic when it comes to hitting the voting booths. We also have quite an elderly population here and whilst the percentageship of bike and fast car owners per head of population is high it is still small as a percentage of overall population. The TT and speed limits are emotive subjects without question but on the whole I think the majority of the population do not care much about either. It is largely the biking fraternity from elsewhere that is most militant about protecting "our" rights over the TT and free speed. All this summed up basically means that when something is issued in a "white" paper such as the DOT paper it very often ends up in some form of legislation unless there is something very politically flawed about it. We shall see in this case though as there will be a lot of feedback from people (good and bad) I am sure.

 

[Guest]

A lot of varied views.
But you know what?
The Govt here has said enough is enough and asked their dept to come up with an answer.
And you know what?
They haven't got an answer.
So, what do they do?
They look to England; what did they do.
They didn't have an answer either!
It's called civil liberties.
No one tells any one what to do.
Thats the way of English life.
Be polite. Be well manered. Don't offend.
You can't ask someone to take a another driving test; when half the population is too thick to pass their basic driving lessons!
I was told the other day that the avarage student takes 30 or so lessons to get their car licence! WHAT? For kcuf sake?
This - is - a - window -winder. We - use - it - to open - the window.
Derrrrr.....
Oh no... how could you expect people to learn how to slide sideways into a corner?
No no no no --- its far easier to put speed restrictions up so the public can compute the demands placed on them. Most can't even wash their own car - so how can you expect them to derive pleasure from driving accuratly and quickly?
I'm sorry, but this really pisses me off.
Weak, gutless government.
Give no quarter, show no mercy, take no prisoners!
kcuf em![]

 

[Julian Trinder]

Well I for one am glad your on our side Peter (I think)!

 

[Guest]

Thats the way of English life.

I afraid that that seems to be on the way out, it's not in favour for the trendies that run the government and the councils.
The concept that you are free to do what you like as long as it is not prohibited, has been replaced by one where you can only do what is specifically allowed. The list is not of what you can't do, but of what you can. Blame the lawyers who make all the money - vagueness and good sense can be argued, they like everything to be black and white, like America. Hence the move to a written constitution.
The country no longer belongs to the people who have a (small) government to run it on their behalf, it belongs to the government who tolerate our presence and want us to be grateful for it.
If you remove the requirement for people to think for themselves, then they will stop thinking for themselves.

 

[Guest]

Good come back Stuart,
What really pisses me off is like what someone else said in the thread earlier; here is a golden chance for the IoM Govt to do something original - to break new ground, to set a new standard.
But what do we see?
The same old same old!
The IoM could become the driver's centre of the Northern Hempishere, with proper advance driver training, excellent roads, good police force, etc, etc.
But, hey; lets build an incinerator instead - Oh - and what will we put in it?
Requirement for Govt staff position:
Lack incentive.
Lazy
Low IQ
Poor work habits
Talk alot, with the ability to say alot about nothing!
Waste tax payers money on hair brain ideas.
Tossa's
[X(]

 

[Julian Trinder]

But on the plus side the Manx people have generously allowed various Brits, Aussies, Yanks and Irish to settle here rather than having to pay tax to buy Gatso's in their home countries so it can't be all bad!

If you ran a country would you let me in Peter? ah go on.

 

[Mark_Bennett]

Perhaps we should all club together and buy our own Island somewhere...[]

Stuarts post pretty well sums up where we are on this one... (and on the IOM soon..?)

 

[Julian Trinder]

Most of us will have seen this in the local papers already but is interesting that he was "reasonably encouraged" by only 43 responses out of 85K+ IOM residents so far...

"TRANSPORT MINISTER TO REVEAL MORE SPEED STATISTICS
24 July 2004


MORE details about proposals to introduce a wide range of road safety measures "" including a national speed limit "" are to be unveiled.



Transport Minister John Shimmin confirmed extra information, including accident statistics, ages of casualties and locations of fatal crashes, will be released in response to public demands.

The data is set to be added to the DoT's website where a complete copy of the public consultation document outlining possible action is available.

Mr Shimmin said he had been 'reasonably encouraged' by the response to the consultation exercise. An outline of possible policies aimed at cutting crashes was published almost three weeks ago and, within a fortnight, had attracted 43 written responses.

He added the department has sent out 200 copies of the consultation document, including more than 80 to politicians, and the DoT's website, which features the document in full, received 238 visits in the first three days.

The department is proposing adopting maximum speed limits for all roads, with a 70mph limit on the Mountain Road and 60mph maximum on other major strategic routes.

The report provides data for 1993 to 2003 which showed 112 people died in road crashes and in more than half of those fatal accidents speed was the cause or a contributory factor."

Julian

 

[oliver]

Ten years statistics will make interesting reading.

I hope it is possible to separate out the road accidents that have occurred during the TT and GP periods, as these will distort the true picture.

 

[Guest]

Good one Julian,
I didn't see that article...
I was too busy patching the hole in the roadway...

You know, I reckon their in for one hell of a shock, come the end of August. If the response is already that good?

we've been trying to get permission to fit a mirror on the road in front of our place; its taken a month+ so far, and still no answer!
Whats more, if you ring them up at 9.05am weekdays, no one answers the phone.....hello? anyone there? (how do you get a job there?)