Roll bar

[PJS917]

I thought a few of you may be interested in the roll/harness bar I have had made. I wanted to be able to remove it easily if I give up track days/hill climbs and return the car to standard. It is mounted on seat belt mounts and can be removed easily if the rear seats are needed. It is made to MSA standard out of Seamless 45mm tube steel.

I am really pleased with bar and after a short drive I think it has added extra rigidity to the car. If anyone is interested I can get more made, they work out at £380.00.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/carmunicate/DSC02883.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/carmunicate/DSC02884.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/carmunicate/DSC02885.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/carmunicate/DSC02886.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/carmunicate/DSC02887.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/carmunicate/DSC02888.jpg

 

[bennyboy]

Look pretty good that Peter, is that price including VAT? Do they come in Black or have you painted it? Thanks, Ben

 

[PJS917]

Ben,

The price includes VAT, but not delivery. They are finished in powder coat black, any powder coat colour can be done but it is an extra £50.00 for different colours.

 

[peanut]

wow that looks fantastic . the finish is excellent. Maybe you could sell it to the cab owners to make theirs more rigid.[]

 

[bennyboy]

Can't quite make it out from the photos Peter - is there a third mounting bolt where the cage meets the wheel arch (well, just in front of the arch?). Don't suppose you saw it unpainted at all?

 

[PJS917]

It is mounted in 3 places. A spreader plate mounts too the lower rear seat belt mounting in the seat well which the main hoop is welded too. Welded arms mount on the upper seat belt mounting on the C pillar. Then triangulated arms mount on the B pillar where the upper front seatbelt mount is. It does not require any drilling or damage to the car, all the mounts are already in the car.

I did not see it unpainted, but the finish of the finished item is very high.

 

[bennyboy]

I'm hoping this is not just a short term offer, because I wont be in a position to buy until later in the year. As far as I can see though, this is a fantasttic option (especially given it fits a sunroof car), and looks very well engineered. Will you be mounting harnesses across the horizontal bar Peter?

 

[PJS917]

I am awaiting the arival of my harnesses which will mount to the harness bar, hopefully this week. I will post pics
as soon as I can.

As for a short term offer, nope I will be able to get them made with no problem.

 

[John Sims]

Very nice and I want one (very similar to the Heigo one I was going to buy but wouldn't fit a sun roof car).

I would however respectfully suggest a couple of changes before I bought one myself:-

Add triangulation - a diagonal bar creates a triangle and increases the strength dramatically. Without it the added roll protection is little better than a car without the bar in the first place.

The harness bar []. It is much to low. Your shoulder straps should be horizontal ideally.

 

[sawood12]

That is superb Peter and just what i've had in mind. Once i've got a couple of jobs out of the way over the remainder of this year I plan to remove the rear seats altogether (using an upholstorer to fit carpet where the seats were) and install a semi-permanent roll cage solution like this. When the time is right how would I be fixed specifying a few minor mods? I'm thinking a couple of short pieces to triangulate the rear spar that bolts to the rear seatbelt point, and a diagonal bar from the top of one corner of the roll bar to the opposing spreader plate?

 

[PJS917]

We discussed a triangulation bar across from above the drivers head to the lower corner and future models can have them, at extra cost. However the lower cross bar adds considerable strength as it holds the hoop apart/rigid if a side impact happens first. When using this type of bar, 45mm diameter, 5mm thick wall it is by design immensely strong and triangulation does not add as much strength as you think.

John, how you can say the harness bar is too low is beyond me, the bar sits about 1 inch below the eyelets in Porsche 968 CS bucket seats, it may just be the angle the photo's are taken at but it is made far in excess of blue book regulations, which is quite happy for a 45% angle for the belts which means the rear seat belt mounts are fine. anyway picture atatched to help you understand.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/carmunicate/DSC02893.jpg

 

[appletonn]

Peter, that looks superb and appears to fit beautifully.

Just awaiting my VDO boost gauge and then I'll be ready to christen the car on track[]

All the best

 

[bennyboy]

Scott, I'd be interested to hear how you get on with having the rear seat well retrimmed - i.e. cost and supplier. I've toyed with this idea and explored a few solutions (968CS delete £££, self-retrim []...), but can't help feeling a pro trimmer would do a much better job.

 

[John Sims]

I'm not trying to be augmentative or disrespectful to you Peter. I am assuming you are member posting his views on a product you have found. If it is to your personal gain it is advertising and therefore not allowed on the forum. If it is a product for open debate, please don't feel personally aggrieved if we debate it.

Steel achieves the majority of its strength in tension, and shear. It is weakest in bending. Diagonals introduce triangulation. Triangles are self supporting, that's why they are used in many many structures. IMHO personal experience suggests the value of triangulation shouldn't be underestimated. Angular tube joints are much more difficult to produce than straight junctions (you can't use a tank cutter to cut the pipe) Perhaps it is this that is colouring the manufacturers preference for not using diagonals.

I also think that the lower bar adds little strength (the car is strong there anyway because of the buttressing of the wheel arch and seat ridge) but aids manufacture considerably as it allows the fabricator to spread the base of the hoop to fit.

I appreciate 5mm thick tube will give a great deal of strength. After all it is over twice the minimum thickness stated in the Blue Book (I am referring to 2004 so I appreciate it may have changed)

Blue Book 2004 notes seat belt point at up to 45º front the horizontal as being "acceptable". Between 10º above or below the horizontal is "preferred". A friend of mine almost died because his seat belt was resting on the seat back and the seat crushed when he crashed making the belts loose. My understanding is there is a move to make shoulder mountings horizontal because of such issues. I don't know if this is in 2008 but would expect it for 2009.

The CS seat may be lower than a standard seat. I was using the original seat bet mounting points as a reference. perhaps the manufacturer should allow the buyer to choose what height he wants the harness bar.

If your manufacturer was interested Blue Book 2004 states an approved safety cage sould support the equivalent weight of the car + 75kg (stated as W) :-

1.5W lateral
5.5W Fore and aft
7.5W Vertical

I appreciate that most of us aren't looking for a full cage, or we would buy a full cage, but a belt mounting which will improve your protection (not compromise it is discussed in a previous thread).

If I were after a harness/roll bar solution this looks very nice, and nicely fabricated, but IMHO could be safer, stronger and lighter.

How heavy is it?

 

[PJS917]

John,

Debate is good and I have no problem with it, the bar has been designed to 2008 blue book regulations by one of the UK's leading roll cage manufacturers. It has also been with assessed and analysed by aeronautical engineers who deemed it to be a very high quality structural integrity. It has also passed MSA srutineering with ease. It has been designed to do a job, which is to offer a great deal of protection without damaging or interfering with the cars original design. It does not affect reward visibility, which a cross beam would. It does not affect insurance premiums, which often a roll bar can.

The harness bar can be any height you like, it was designed for the seats in my car, which are 968 CS seats. The lower bar acts for strength should a side impact happens first and it will help to maintain the shape of the hoop. It also maintain the spreader plates in position should forces be applied to the bar from other directions (it is also a handy mid car strut brace)

As for triangulation I am not denying it helps, but the point off this bar is to add maximum strength with as little interference to the car as possible. I did not set out to make a bolt in cage/half cage as they are easily available; I set out to get the best possible compromise that affected the car as little as possible. I agree triangulation may be a good idea, if only as somewhere to mount a camera. (As for lighter, not really sure how it could be but I have not weighed it but it is easy to hold by one person, and easy "ish" to fit by one person)

 

[John Sims]

Well you can't say fairer than that. []

I must admit that I must have misread something as I though you had mentioned 5mm wall tube which would have made it very heavy. In retrospect I thought the rads looked too tight to have cold rolled 5mm so obviously wasn't the case.

Silly me. Once I resolve my rear end noise issue I might well have to have one - with a higher belt bar []

 

[Hilux]

Hi Peter

I`m interested but want one with a diagonal, how much please?

Do they do them in Burgundy powder coat [8|][8|][8|] []

 

[Diver944]

I must admit when I first saw the height of the harness bar it concerned me, but now I see the second picture with a seat in place it looks just about perfect, especially if it doesn't obscure any rear view.

How long to fit once the front seats are out? Six bolts, under half an hour maybe?

 

[PJS917]

Paul, and Paul,

It took about 20 minutes to fit, but I did have both seats out and an extra pair of hands, but I think now I know the best way of fitting it 10-15 mins should be the norm (with both seats out)

I think if you work on £50.00/ extra bar, given that it needs cutting , welding and powder coating, I will get a firm price for you when I get chance.

 

[John Sims]

Peter I think you need to give us the manufacturers details so we can contact them direct as this is beginning to look like personal advertising otherwise. Recommendation on this forum is fine advertising is against the rules.

For those that are interested I calculate the weight to be:-

5mm wall tube 6 meters x 9Kg/M + plates etc @ say 4Kg = 58Kg

2.5mm wall tube 6 meters x 4Kg/M + 4 Kg = 28Kg

I'm given to think it must be 2.5mm wall Peter not 5mm (which you did state above) as otherwise you would have job lifting it. These figures were based on Moly not m/steel so may be a bit out