RS / Cup / RSR engine specs

zub · Feb 3, 2007

I was just comparing the engine specs for the RS, Cup 3.8 and Cup 3.8 RSR and thought I may as well share it here. Interestingly the RS produces its peak power at 6,500 rpm vs 6,200 for the Cup car. I've just had my RS engine rebuilt with cup cams and solid lifters, and now have to go through a full running in period before it can get mapped and tested on the dyno. It will be interesting to see where peak power ends up.

http://tinyurl.com/3y6fj4

The 9kg saving on the M003 engine is the single mass flywheel.

carreraboy · Feb 3, 2007

As far as I know they took the VarioRam Induction of the Cup Car and presumably The RSR Race Car, but left it on the N/GT and other RS.....could be wrong. I know Colin Der Fencemeister Belton likes to remove the VarioRam when he tunes up the 993/RS........as the system can allegedly slip.....

RIVIERAM002 · Feb 3, 2007

Had mine on the dyno at Colins, it peaked at 342 bhp @ 6273 rpm / 427 Nm,
with all invoices and job sheets in Swiss, I can only guess what engine mods
have been carried out, Colin said it was one of the best power curves he has come
across for a 993 rs, it certainly goes well and revs up extremely quick.

clubsport · Feb 4, 2007

Des, varioram slip???? It is part of the induction system!

There have been instances with cam timing slipping on 993RS engines,
I understand Mr B amongst others have retimed cars using different dowels so the problem will not re-occurr.

Vram when functioning correctly improves the torque across the rev range, different tuning methods have different needs, for road use I find the spread of torque useful and have no plans to remove mine [

]

Zubin, I thought you were on here a while back teasing us about an amazing car that you couldn't actually tell us about......did you scratch that in favour of keeping your fine RS with a rebuilt engine?

zub · Feb 4, 2007

ORIGINAL: clubsport

I thought you were on here a while back teasing us about an amazing car that you couldn't actually tell us about......did you scratch that in favour of keeping your fine RS with a rebuilt engine?

I didn't want to mention it until it was in my hands - when you were asking it was not physically in my garage so I didn't want to tempt fate. it's a 3.8 Cup RSR. Had it at the Ring in November, it is fantastic! I'll do some Porsche Open races this year in it, and see how it goes. It will prob be in class 2 so won't be competitive against 390bhp GT3 Cup cars, but it should be fun!

RIVIERAM002 · Feb 4, 2007

Zub, what a car !!! I have gone viper green with envy, can I book my ride at oulton !!
fantastic.

carreraboy · Feb 4, 2007

Stand corrected Clubsport, however I am correct regarding the Cup Engine being non-VarioRam.

Also Andie Murch took his 993RS to Mr B who took the VarioRam off! Which apparently he has done to many others....

paul howells · Feb 4, 2007

zub the car went well around the ring
A good posting on the engine specs etc,the factory always said the rs was faster than the cup.
Riviera that is some healthy figures from your engine,is it still on a vario ram.
Des nothing wrong with the vario ram,not sure andy had his taken off ,unless he had a cup intake or throttle bodies fitted.
Zub it will not be the only rsr out in the open this year,we will hopefully be doing a couple of open rounds in a 2 driver event in a ex factory rsr also,when it lands in the uk etc,may even be at oulton in march.

clubsport · Feb 4, 2007

Zubin, congrats...now that is a 993 [

] Look forward to seeing you both on track some time in '07.

Des, agreed cup & RSR didn't run v/ram, they had different induction systems,,,,v/ram is better for a spread of torque across the rev range. It first appeared on the RS before Porsche used it on the C2/4 variants, both cup & rsr run different cams to the RS, on a race engine where you have the opportunity to hopefully spend most of your time in the upper rev ranges the advantages of varioram are not appreciated as they would be in use on the road.

RIVIERAM002 · Feb 4, 2007

Yes Paul, still on varioram, all engine work carried out by FMT tuning in Switzerland,
maybe the dyno was on the kind side but first run was 338 bhp / 418 Nm followed by
a 342 bhp / 427 Nm.

zub · Feb 4, 2007

ORIGINAL: paul howells

Zub it will not be the only rsr out in the open this year,we will hopefully be doing a couple of open rounds in a 2 driver event in a ex factory rsr also,when it lands in the uk etc,may even be at oulton in march.

That's great as class 2 in just GT3Cups would get boring - it's always good to have a bit of fun with similar cars. Is the car you're referring to the one from the US we spoke about at the Ring?

paul howells · Feb 4, 2007

Riviera thats still good figs for a vario ram for sure.
The best i got out of my cup car was 332bhp,but only about 395nm with a larger throttle body and live remap.
Zub yes the usa car,a good friend has bought it,and this weekend we have been muttering about racing it while drinking good belguim beer at spa!.We may well also look into the new fia gt historic series,if the classes are sensible, as we would be with the 996 gt3 ,may well have to fit my rs engine to compete fairly with the 996 cups etc

BlueNGT · Feb 5, 2007

ORIGINAL: zub

ORIGINAL: clubsport

I thought you were on here a while back teasing us about an amazing car that you couldn't actually tell us about......did you scratch that in favour of keeping your fine RS with a rebuilt engine?

Click to expand...

I didn't want to mention it until it was in my hands - when you were asking it was not physically in my garage so I didn't want to tempt fate. it's a 3.8 Cup RSR. Had it at the Ring in November, it is fantastic! I'll do some Porsche Open races this year in it, and see how it goes. It will prob be in class 2 so won't be competitive against 390bhp GT3 Cup cars, but it should be fun!

Is that the car from Freisinger?

vic cohen · Feb 5, 2007

jawohl..................i saw it when it touched down ..............nice!

zub · Feb 5, 2007

ORIGINAL: BlueNGT
Is that the car from Freisinger?

Yes it is. It was delivered to the UK in late October, and went straight on a truck back to Germany to the Ring in November!

Here's a clip of it going round Brunchen at the Ring - thanks to SP for recording this...
http://tinyurl.com/yky9jz

PhilRS · Feb 8, 2007

Zub, very nice car and beautiful sound. Congrats!

johnny senna · Feb 11, 2007

Congtrats Zub. At first I was confused when your thread mentioned cup cams and solid lifters.....as when we chatted once at Bedford, you said you wouldn't bother modifying the engine of your 993 RS........but then you reveal you have bought a Cup car!! Nice one. Are you bringing it to Oulton?

zub · Feb 12, 2007

ORIGINAL: johnny senna

Congtrats Zub. At first I was confused when your thread mentioned cup cams and solid lifters.....as when we chatted once at Bedford, you said you wouldn't bother modifying the engine of your 993 RS........but then you reveal you have bought a Cup car!! Nice one. Are you bringing it to Oulton?

The RS had an engine rebuild, and whilst I was about it I thought I may as well run cup cams and solid lifters. Not too sure of the difference as the engine is still running it. The RSR has a rather wild cam already...! Can't do Oulton unfortunately, but will be doing the RMA Paddock Club dates in the RS and some Open rounds in the RSR.

johnny senna · Feb 13, 2007

ORIGINAL: zub

ORIGINAL: johnny senna

Congtrats Zub. At first I was confused when your thread mentioned cup cams and solid lifters.....as when we chatted once at Bedford, you said you wouldn't bother modifying the engine of your 993 RS........but then you reveal you have bought a Cup car!! Nice one. Are you bringing it to Oulton?

Click to expand...

The RS had an engine rebuild, and whilst I was about it I thought I may as well run cup cams and solid lifters. Not too sure of the difference as the engine is still running it. The RSR has a rather wild cam already...! Can't do Oulton unfortunately, but will be doing the RMA Paddock Club dates in the RS and some Open rounds in the RSR.

Sorry mate I get it now....you have kept the RS as well. Lucky man. Excellent stuff.

Ninemeister · Mar 13, 2007

ORIGINAL: carreraboy

Stand corrected Clubsport, however I am correct regarding the Cup Engine being non-VarioRam.

Also Andie Murch took his 993RS to Mr B who took the VarioRam off! Which apparently he has done to many others....

Erm, don't know where you heard this from, I bought Andy's car post incident and the engine was still sporting its varioram manifold.

In a nutshell, all 3.75 litres:
993RS = RS cams, hydraulic lifters, large bore varioram manifold
993 Cup = cup cams, lightweight solid lifters, 964 plastic intake manifold, single throttle body
993 RSR = rsr cams, lightweight solid lifters, big valve/port heads, individual throttle bodies, resonance flap alloy or carbon intake plenums

Whilst I will admit that i am not a big fan of the varioram this is mainly due to the inherrant design flaws incorporated into the factory system rather than a fundamental issue with the conceptual design. However can I stress that we do not have a policy of removing the varioram unless there is good reason, for example when the specification of a 9m tuned engine clearly exceeds the performance capability of the stock intake system, whereupon my preference is for an individual high throttle body assembly.