RS Replicas.....

[Ben Savill]

This rep really has had all the true RS parts thrown at it, right down to the thinner glass. Jason bought it for an absolute song a few years ago if I remember correctly - the poor guy advertising it, significantly undervalued it and his phone did a pretty good impression of the Batphone in Commissioner Gordon's office for a day or two. http://www.speedservice.nl/?page_id=2546 Look at the price of the thing now !!! I saw the car very recently at Olaf's and it is a lovely looking car but is a good example of what everyone here is talking about. You can throw a lot of money at a C2 / C4 but it will rarely breech the GBP30k mark on resale. I think Lee who built the silver Clubsport esque car based on a car he bought from JZM sold his for approx 35k but this would be the exception rather than the norm and I would suggest it owed him quite a bit more than this. Having gone down a similar route to Lee, I now have a modified 964 which is an RS for intents and purposes except for the factory additional welding, brakes, and power steering (it's RHD) if you wish to be pedantic, but hasn't cost me RS money although it is not that far off it alarmingly. However, I drive it without fear of affecting it's value and consequently I am able to "push" on. It is a fantastic car and "almost" made me wonder what all the fuss was about with the true RS cars. Couple of pics - the finished article; the shiny new sewing machine out back in post below. As somebody has already said, buy a car that has been done for you - it will be far cheaper!!!

 

[Ben Savill]

And the motor.....

 

[h_____]

ORIGINAL: Ben Savill This rep really has had all the true RS parts thrown at it, right down to the thinner glass. Jason bought it for an absolute song a few years ago if I remember correctly - the poor guy advertising it, significantly undervalued it and his phone did a pretty good impression of the Batphone in Commissioner Gordon's office for a day or two. http://www.speedservice.nl/?page_id=2546 Look at the price of the thing now !!! I saw the car very recently at Olaf's and it is a lovely looking car but is a good example of what everyone here is talking about. You can throw a lot of money at a C2 / C4 but it will rarely breech the GBP30k mark on resale. I think Lee who built the silver Clubsport esque car based on a car he bought from JZM sold his for approx 35k but this would be the exception rather than the norm and I would suggest it owed him quite a bit more than this. Having gone down a similar route to Lee, I now have a modified 964 which is an RS for intents and purposes except for the factory additional welding, brakes, and power steering (it's RHD) if you wish to be pedantic, but hasn't cost me RS money although it is not that far off it alarmingly. However, I drive it without fear of affecting it's value and consequently I am able to "push" on. It is a fantastic car and "almost" made me wonder what all the fuss was about with the true RS cars. Couple of pics - the finished article; the shiny new sewing machine out back in post below. As somebody has already said, buy a car that has been done for you - it will be far cheaper!!!

Good points and hard to get across when people talk about replicas and value. Of course the other approach is buy a real one that has battle scars and then you will never break some thing that hasnt been broken before (or thats the theory) lol! There are still some of us happy to use the cars as intended, but I completely get that if you have an original panel / paint car, its a risky thing to do. Also, I think there is difference between replica and homage. Lees car was never intended to be an NGT replcia (as you say), as a result its possible to build a car quicker and better handling than an NGT if someone so desires. Technology has moved on, suspension kits are superior plus some of the original design constraints can be ignored. Your red car looks lovely!

 

[Ben Savill]

ORIGINAL: h_____

Good points and hard to get across when people talk about replicas and value. Of course the other approach is buy a real one that has battle scars and then you will never break some thing that hasnt been broken before (or thats the theory) lol! There are still some of us happy to use the cars as intended, but I completely get that if you have an original panel / paint car, its a risky thing to do. Also, I think there is difference between replica and homage. Lees car was never intended to be an NGT replcia (as you say), as a result its possible to build a car quicker and better handling than an NGT if someone so desires. Technology has moved on, suspension kits are superior plus some of the original design constraints can be ignored. Your red car looks lovely! [/quote] Thanks H. It is a gem of a car and is considerably different now from what it was when I bought it because I just couldn't help myself. What was bought to be a cheap track day car rapidly metamorphosed in to a full on resto. That's the danger. If you want cheap ( against the RS point of relativity) fun, you need to be diligent and stay to true to your original intentions. Lee's car was a good buy for someone who could get their head around spending that money on a modified C2. Just not sure there are that many people out there despite the fact in true value terms against what Lee built it for, the car was great value. Ultimately with my little red car, if I bang one of the panels and it needs replacing, the integral value of the car will be barely affected. I don't believe this to be the case with any of the RS cars, even those with battle scars, and that's what drew me in to build mine. Plus I loved the project and seeing it evolve. There is no doubt however that there will always be something special about getting in to an RS. Enjoy Hedingham everybody. Ben

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: Ben Savill Lee's car was a good buy for someone who could get their head around spending that money on a modified C2. Just not sure there are that many people out there despite the fact in true value terms against what Lee built it for, the car was great value.

Lee's car was indeed a great build. The last time I saw it was being driven in anger (very well) around Spa by the new owner who had already spent even more money it.......it had a complete colour change to black! At Spa it had a few engine issues which clearly needed looking in to sooner rather than later, so the owner parked it up to limit the damage. Knowing the owner, I'm sure whatever it needs doing to the engine, will be done. Which I guess all goes to show, that total money spent is not always related to how much money still needs to be spent.

 

[Talat]

As a serial modifier you've got to want to build a car for yourself - mine (once done) will be effectively a new car - full engine rebuild, gearbox rebuild, new suspension, bushes, RS steering rack etc etc. I've made mistakes along the way but even so, all told it should still owe me less than the price of a genuine RS. If I decided to sell it then I would have to price it sensibly i.e. accept a significant loss on the project. This is just the way it is - the market is small and you've got to find someone who is roughly on the same wavelength as you. It's not like the GT-R scene where people will pay extra for a modified car, the Porsche world tends to prefer standard cars for resale/investment purposes. When I was deciding on the colour of my project I did briefly toy with the idea of painting it GP White - I thought I'd hedge my bets for future resale purposes but then I thought I was no better then these "investors" so the idea was quickly banished

 

[38F3E1]

The chap who bought my old 964 off me did much the same thing. Really nice C2 no rust and standard other than Cup 1s and teardrops when I sold it. He rebuilt the engine, lightweight flywheel, RS exhaust system front to back, upgraded the brakes ala 993 and front brake duct, stripped the interior, race seats, KW3 all round. Made a great focused track car, different to an RS but ever so ever so nice to drive hard. He sold it a couple of weeks ago for 25K. I think at that price it was an cracking buy. He certainly would not have got his money back. Ian.

 

[h_____]

ORIGINAL: Ben Savill Ultimately with my little red car, if I bang one of the panels and it needs replacing, the integral value of the car will be barely affected. I don't believe this to be the case with any of the RS cars, even those with battle scars, and that's what drew me in to build mine. Plus I loved the project and seeing it evolve.

If an RS has been banged before, whats the difference banging it again? What counts is that the repairs are done properly. Just watch a couple of Cup videos from back in the day. It soon becomes clear that most of these cars have not been spared in the past.....how they are treated now is what counts. Mine for example has had at least 2 new wings and a front and rear bumper, plus plenty of paint. Thus, if I dinged a corner again, so long as I put it right properly, why would it devalue the car? Projects are a different thing, sometimes the journey is as good as the destination.

 

[Ben Savill]

ORIGINAL: h_____ If an RS has been banged before, whats the difference banging it again? What counts is that the repairs are done properly. Just watch a couple of Cup videos from back in the day. It soon becomes clear that most of these cars have not been spared in the past.....how they are treated now is what counts. Mine for example has had at least 2 new wings and a front and rear bumper, plus plenty of paint. Thus, if I dinged a corner again, so long as I put it right properly, why would it devalue the car? Projects are a different thing, sometimes the journey is as good as the destination.

That's a fair point H, if the repair work really is compounding to that degree. I would say though that buyers who come in to the market for an RS now are rarely as objective as perhaps they should be. To that end, it stands to reason that a car that has a greater proportion of original panels etc etc will have a higher market value or certainly sell quicker. Perhaps my view point is tainted by my justification / man maths for spending the money on my project [] Cup cars / race cars are a different discussion altogether as you say where much more significant repairs than merely a wing or a PU are commonplace and if they have been done correctly, are perfectly acceptable. "Projects are a different thing, sometimes the journey is as good as the destination." - that's a great saying. Cheers.

 

[Hacki]

ORIGINAL: Ben Savill "Projects are a different thing, sometimes the journey is as good as the destination." - that's a great saying.

+1

 

[jason]

ORIGINAL: Ben Savill This rep really has had all the true RS parts thrown at it, right down to the thinner glass. Jason bought it for an absolute song a few years ago if I remember correctly - the poor guy advertising it, significantly undervalued it and his phone did a pretty good impression of the Batphone in Commissioner Gordon's office for a day or two. http://www.speedservice.nl/?page_id=2546 Look at the price of the thing now !!!

Holy Crappola!!! I know a real and mint RS that just sold for a lot less than that![] Still wished Id kept it though. Mistake to sell it and wish I had it back now. Another one of those 'something juicy in the pipeline' moments but it never came off

 

[davidcross]

ORIGINAL: Ian McLeod The chap who bought my old 964 off me did much the same thing. Really nice C2 no rust and standard other than Cup 1s and teardrops when I sold it. He rebuilt the engine, lightweight flywheel, RS exhaust system front to back, upgraded the brakes ala 993 and front brake duct, stripped the interior, race seats, KW3 all round. Made a great focused track car, different to an RS but ever so ever so nice to drive hard. He sold it a couple of weeks ago for 25K. I think at that price it was an cracking buy. He certainly would not have got his money back. Ian.

There u go says it all i think.....

 

[h_____]

ORIGINAL: jason

ORIGINAL: Ben Savill This rep really has had all the true RS parts thrown at it, right down to the thinner glass. Jason bought it for an absolute song a few years ago if I remember correctly - the poor guy advertising it, significantly undervalued it and his phone did a pretty good impression of the Batphone in Commissioner Gordon's office for a day or two. http://www.speedservice.nl/?page_id=2546 Look at the price of the thing now !!!

Holy Crappola!!! I know a real and mint RS that just sold for a lot less than that![] Still wished Id kept it though. Mistake to sell it and wish I had it back now. Another one of those 'something juicy in the pipeline' moments but it never came off

Damn! yes thats good money for a rep - if you are selling.

 

[oldtimer]

Hi everyone ! Thought I'd just chip in with my thoughts on RS versus RS Reps. I was lucky enough to own an RS for 10 years 2002-2012 , and lucky enough to buy it from Phil Hindley at Tech9 who was a good mentor. In my amateur track driver hands it went from 28000 kilometre to 92000 kilometre , and in excess of 50 trackdays. However by 2012 , with few notable exceptions , people were not tracking 964RS , and 993RS had disappeared a couple of years earlier , so the only fun left was chasing GT3s ......but uninsured risks were high [:'(] Although the 964RS is a beautiful car , the last of the classic 911 look IMHO , there's not enough owner enjoyment for me in just looking at it and cleaning it (!) and going on display laps , so I had to get the fun factor back . What I needed was a 964RS substitute. I did not need a lookylikey rep , just something good for tracks with the same natural beauty. FWIW I dont see how you can use an RS in anger unless its on a circuit ....and if you do use it on circuit then that 10% excess on insurance cover is a bit of a deterrent. So I was lucky enough to find a 964RS substitute based on a stripped and hillclimb prepped 964C2 in early 2012 and after 18 months of ownership and a mere 8 trackdays have dialled in to enjoying it and adjusting to RHD , power assist steering , less aggressive braking. In spite of being older and therefore slower I have a datalogger telling me I am going quicker than I was in the RS.....OK still not as quick as Gruppenfuhrer , h , Adrian , ChrisW , Ian964 , etc -.....but the fun factor is back []

 

[jason]

A well set up RS is still a great car on the roads though....long road trips have replaced trackdays for me and I'd still be happy to own an RS and blat around Europe every year in it. Personally I don't think they are just for track.

 

[Barty964rst]

Agree with you Jason, some of my best times in my N-GT have been on crossing France, Germany and Switzerland on great scenic roads in Porsche Convoy and independantly. What a Blast! I know some people trailor the cars to and from events, but for me the whole trip is the Big event, love driving it as it was designed, to and from events. Have had an RS Rep and didn't ever get the same feel from it that I hoped I would. So, I sold that, and bought an RS to track 4 years ago, that was after taking a trip out with Tim B at the Ring in his RS - a seminal moment in Porsche experiences! Confession time - I also enjoy a bit of polishing and Parade lap here and there for the social side and share a car that most others appreciate hugely. Intend to Track on with the car whilst I own it. Anyone doing Goodwood next month?

 

[davidcross]

ORIGINAL: Barty964rst Agree with you Jason, some of my best times in my N-GT have been on crossing France, Germany and Switzerland on great scenic roads in Porsche Convoy and independantly. What a Blast! I know some people trailor the cars to and from events, but for me the whole trip is the Big event, love driving it as it was designed, to and from events. Have had an RS Rep and didn't ever get the same feel from it that I hoped I would. So, I sold that, and bought an RS to track 4 years ago, that was after taking a trip out with Tim B at the Ring in his RS - a seminal moment in Porsche experiences! Confession time - I also enjoy a bit of polishing and Parade lap here and there for the social side and share a car that most others appreciate hugely. Intend to Track on with the car whilst I own it. Anyone doing Goodwood next month?

What's on at Goodwood next month? Im doing the revival this weekend

 

[Barty964rst]

ORIGINAL: davidcross

ORIGINAL: Barty964rst Agree with you Jason, some of my best times in my N-GT have been on crossing France, Germany and Switzerland on great scenic roads in Porsche Convoy and independantly. What a Blast! I know some people trailor the cars to and from events, but for me the whole trip is the Big event, love driving it as it was designed, to and from events. Have had an RS Rep and didn't ever get the same feel from it that I hoped I would. So, I sold that, and bought an RS to track 4 years ago, that was after taking a trip out with Tim B at the Ring in his RS - a seminal moment in Porsche experiences! Confession time - I also enjoy a bit of polishing and Parade lap here and there for the social side and share a car that most others appreciate hugely. Intend to Track on with the car whilst I own it. Anyone doing Goodwood next month?

What's on at Goodwood next month? Im doing the revival this weekend There is a charity trackday on the first Saturday for 964's!

 

[ian harvey]

I agree, they are great road cars, or at least mine is on 'normal' tyres and standard RS suspension set-up