Rusty front wings on S2

[zcacogp]

Chaps,

There have been a number of posts about front wings going rusty on an S2's and turbo's - apparently near the bottom, there is an area which catches rubbish which then rusts. And (reading between the lines), the rust can get quite advanced before it is visible.

I have an S2, which is, as far as I can see, rust-free. However, I'd really appreciate it if someone could give me a more detailed explanation (or even better post some piccies) of this problem so I know where to look on mine. I guess I am worried that it is rusting badly where I can't see it, and I'll come out of the house one day to find a pile of brown dust where I had parked a Porsche the night before ...

Thanks for any help.


Oli.

 

[Guest]

If there is any bubbling at all in the paint then the bottom of the wing is likely to be in a poor state. This is obviously more likely to happen on the passenger side with a right hand drive car as it picks up more dirt and rubbish. I bought a second-hand wing and put rthe bottom section on my turbo to avoid the expense of a new wing, but decent second hand wings are hard to come by. The trim under the wing is a weak spot because they warp and then trap grit which then wears away the bottom of your wing.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Graham1

If there is any bubbling at all in the paint then the bottom of the wing is likely to be in a poor state. This is obviously more likely to happen on the passenger side with a right hand drive car as it picks up more dirt and rubbish. I bought a second-hand wing and put rthe bottom section on my turbo to avoid the expense of a new wing, but decent second hand wings are hard to come by. The trim under the wing is a weak spot because they warp and then trap grit which then wears away the bottom of your wing.

Graham,

Thanks - helpful.

Are we talking about the bit in front of the front wheel, or the bit behind? And how do I find out whether I have a developing rust problem, even if I don't have bubbling visible on the surface?

You also speak of the trim under the wing being a weak spot ... which trim is this? Do you have a piccie, by any happy circumstance?

You also mentioned buying a new wing and using the bottom of it. I know that Turbo/S2 wings are different at the front on account of the different front bumper, but are they the same elsewhere? (As in, to replace a turbo/S2 wing, can you buy one of the other design of wing and simply swap the fronts 'round? Or isn't it this simple?)

Thanks again for your help.


Oli.

 

[sawood12]

The turbo/S2 wings are not interchangable with the other 944 models wings. The S2's and turbos had some thin plastic trim that bolted directly underneath the sill and front wing. The trim that attaches onto the bottom of the front wings is bolted onto two or three lugs that are spot welded inside the wing. Give this plastic trim a firm waggle. If it's well fixed you should be OK, if it moves then one or more of these lugs has correded away and the chances are you will have corrosion forming under the mottled wruth coating. My plastic trims are currently held on by only one lug and the attachment to the wheel arch liner so they rotate freely and are a real pain in the bum. I would love to replace the wings or get them repaired but the costs are pretty prohibitive - £800 for the wings and another £400 to get them fitted and sprayed. Although the wings are bolt on there is still a fair amount of skillfull 'fettling' required to get the panel gaps perfect.

Plan B is to find some nice sill trims to hide the whole length of the sill and underwings and preserve what you have. The only problem with this is that i've yet to find a nice pair of sill trims. I like the 968 trims but they don't fit easily onto a 944 without drilling holes into your sill, which if you do it will be a matter of time before you have rust problems around the drilled holes.

A decent bodyshop which employs someone who did an apprenticeship about 30 yrs ago will be able to cut the bottom of your wings off and manufacture a new piece to weld on. These are rare skills these days as modern bodyshops best friends are not the English Wheel but plastic filler - so if you go down this road you'll need to find a good bodyshop - maybe one that specialises in old sportscars like E-Type Jags.

 

[zcacogp]

Scott,

Thanks. I presume we are looking at the parts of the wing behind the wheel then, in that it sounds like they are in line with the sill?

I'll find the plastic trim (this evening) and give it a good tug. Actually, maybe not too good a tug; it would be a shame if it came off in the hand ...

I guess the way to prevent any rust from forming here is to take the liner out of the wheelarch and apply either waxoyl or some kind of bitumen underseal-stuff. How easy is it to get the liner out?


Oli.

 

[Fen]

968 trims don't even fit easily if you drill holes in your sills! You could bond some on with Stickaflex however, but there is still a lot of trimming of bits off the trims and more importantly off the front wings (yes, I cut off my totally solid wing bottoms and threw them away!)

I don't know that the holes necessarily cause rust. Once drilled if you insert a rivnut then paint and liberally Waxoyle both sides before screwing the skirt on then it shouldn't corrode.

 

[zcacogp]

Pictures would be most helpful ... if anyone has any ...


Oli.

 

[Alpine]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

Scott,

I guess the way to prevent any rust from forming here is to take the liner out of the wheelarch and apply either waxoyl or some kind of bitumen underseal-stuff. How easy is it to get the liner out?

Oli.

Oli

You are correct that the best way to treat this is to remove the wheel arch liners. There are about 10 plastic screws which hold the liners in place. It may take you an hour each side to get them out first time if they have never been out before, but I think i could get mine out in 15 mins now.

You also need to remove the black plastic trims at the bottom of the wing (behind the wheel - assuming you have an S2 or turbo). There are 3 bolts and mine came off pretty easily. You'll probably need to jack one side of the car up to get underneath.

Once this is all done, you'll be able to get to the back of the wing and remove all the mud and dirt that will have collected over the years. I have applied thick black underseal at the back of the wing at the bottom, in the hope that this will stop water penetration.

 

[Diver944]

Oli, The third picture down in this thread shows the area of the front wing that is prone to corrosion

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=197053&mpage=1&key=wurth&#197053

It is the area underneath the 'bobbly' stoneguard paint that goes first, and at the bottom of this section are two lugs that the plastic 'under sill' attaches to. Alas despite all my efforts over Easter I have recently spotted an area of my freshly applied Stoneguard that looks like something is 'happening' underneath already [X(]

 

[zcacogp]

Guys,

Excellently helpful replies - thanks to all of you.

I have just had a look at the trim bits under my front wings, and gave them a (cautious, but then firmer) good tug, and they seemed to be very solid, no crunching, movement or otherwise. So, I guess they can't be too bad. However, I may still find the time to take the wheelarch liners out and give them a good clean and spray with some underseal, to ensure that they stay that way.

Paul, thanks for the link to your previous thread. Two questions. 1) You never posted the picture which you said you would of the drain holes which should be clear. Are these holes in the sill, or holes in the black trim which goes under the sill? I am confused (easily happens!) Also, 2), That is a VERY professional job - are you in the bodyshop trade? (If so, I may ask for a professional opinion and possibly a little work, if you are amenable to such things.)


Oli.

ETA: Another question, which I could find the answer to if I could be bothered to go and look at my car but it's dark and cold and I've got a nice glass of malt and am feeling lazy so I won't! ... the black plastic trims - are they in one piece which goes all along the underneath, or are they in two pieces - one under the sill and one under the wing?

(Edited again for bad smelling pistakes.)

 

[sawood12]

If your lugs are still intact then do as Phil has done and get a load of underseal on them as these lugs are the first casualties. In fact I wouldn't be surpirsed if the spots of bubbling wruth that alot of us have experienced is rust coming through from were the spot weld was that attached the lugs before they corroded away.

 

[Diver944]

Oli, I'll see if I can find that picture of the sill drains (it's on my old computer but I'm sure
I've got it). The drain holes are on the underside of the metal sill, you can't see them when the plastic trim is in place. The trim IS in two parts - one small section under the wing, and a 4 foot section under the sill itself.

Professionally I'm a S.M.A.R.T repairer, so rust and corrosion is well out of my normal area. I'd never take on any work dealing with corrosion as it really does need grinding and welding equipment if it's gone past the initial stage. The fact that my own repair looks like its starting to bubble again makes me thank my lucky stars I didn't offer to do anyone elses car back in the Spring []

 

[Diver944]

Found it []

 

[Guest]

I don't have pics I'm afraid. I was talking about the area behind the front wheel. When I was looking for a second hand wing, I did speak to one company who said they were starting to make pieces to replace the lower part of the wing- I'll find their details later if your'e interested

 

[944Turbo]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

If your lugs are still intact then do as Phil has done and get a load of underseal on them as these lugs are the first casualties. In fact I wouldn't be surpirsed if the spots of bubbling wruth that alot of us have experienced is rust coming through from were the spot weld was that attached the lugs before they corroded away.

My lugs are still intact, the hole is higher up,
Tony

 

[Alpine]

ORIGINAL: Diver944

Oli, The third picture down in this thread shows the area of the front wing that is prone to corrosion


It is the area underneath the 'bobbly' stoneguard paint that goes first, and at the bottom of this section are two lugs that the plastic 'under sill' attaches to. Alas despite all my efforts over Easter I have recently spotted an area of my freshly applied Stoneguard that looks like something is 'happening' underneath already [X(]

Paul

I was thinking about stripping my stoneguard (Wurth) back at the bottom of the wings and recovering, but i don't want to go to the bother and expense of buying the Wurth paint gun and air compressor.

If I just buy a can of Wurth, can it be applied by brushing it on. Since it has a bobbley finish anyway presumably if there are a few lumps and bumps in the finish it wouldn't matter, particularly since I would be painting it over in body colour.

 

[zcacogp]

Chaps,

Lots of helpful replies - thanks.

I have had a better look at the wings on mine in daylight, and all is not quite as rosy as I had thought. There is rust showing - the paint is lifting around the edges and there is slight corrosion visible, more so on the passenger side.

I can see what is being referred to by the undersill trims - they do seem to be firmly attached, but obviously that rust is going to have to have something done about it fairly soon, before winter for sure. I'll see if I can dismantle the passenger side this weekend; I'd like to see the damage that is being hidden at the moment.

What are suggestions if there is some rust there already (which there is very likely to be)? Underseal won't undo the damage that is already present; I guess I am looking at some rust-eater or rust-cure. I have never had any luck with rust on cars; in my experience, once it is there, it is there to stay. Paul, I guess I am down to the sort of work you posted pictures of in the spring, but I have neither the facilities or space. Hmph. Or skill either. Suggestions?

Paul - thanks for the picture of the drain holes in the bottom of the sill. I'll be sure to take the plactic cover off and see if they are indeed clear. I guess I can use them to insert a waxoyl application pipe to make sure that the sills are really well coated inside - non? Also, what is a "S.M.A.R.T Repairer'? Pardon my ignorace.

Graham1 - thanks for the offer of the name of the company that does new wing bottoms. I am hoping it won't be necessary ... but others may well find it useful (as may I, yet!) How about posting it if you can find it.

Thanks again. Hope all goes well on Saturday.


Oli.

 

[Hilux]

See also here

 

[zcacogp]

Chaps,

OK, a fairly tedious (wet) Saturday has now been spent investigating further. I only had time to do the passenger side, but will do the drivers side next weekend.

Liner out, and plastic trim off, and I realised what a hopeless piece of design those nice Boys and Girls at Porsche came up with. It really is asking to rust, isn't it! A handly little shelf to collect grot, water and salt, and some nice spindly brackets and lugs to start the process off! And then, to cap it all, it is all hidden under some plastic to hold the crud in place, and to prevent you from seeing the rust as it starts to appear! Quality car manufacturer indeed!

Thankfully, mine wasn't rusty. It is starting to go along the edge of the wing - where the metal folds back into the wheelarch, but the bit under the plastic trim is very solid. (Quite how, I'm not sure - the clips which hold the plastic trim piece on were rusted to glory, but the lugs which they were next to were still very solid. I guess I am lucky ...) Anyway, I cleaned the whole area with a jetwasher, and dried it out with the wife's hairdryer (she was out. Don't tell her anyone, please.) I then applied waxoyl LIBERALLY all around the inside of the arch, up into the lip just inside the wheelarch and laid it on very thickly on the offending shelf. Then a good coating underneath, over all the little lugs, and put it all back together. Then, for good measure, I filled the plastic trim up with waxoyl as well, so the lugs are pretty much swimming in the stuff.

The good news is that there is no serious rust, and it looks like the car has not been damaged there (neighbours son-in-law is an ex-bodyshop man, and he came to have a look as well, and was very impressed with the condition under the liner.) So that's good. The bad news is that there is a small amount of cosmetic rust, which I ought to have looked at soon.

Thanks to everyone for your input. One last question. The black plastic trim is held on with beefy self-tap screws, which go through the lugs into clip-on clips, which provide the thread for the screws (which had rotted away when I took it apart.) Do these clips clip onto the plastic trim, or onto the lugs on the bodywork? i.e. Does it go like this:

(1) Screw Head ---- Metal Lug ---- Clip (clipped onto plastic trim)

or like this:

(2) Screw head ---- Plastic Trim ---- Clip (clipped onto Metal Lug) ?

It looked like it was originally assembled as per (1) above when it came apart, but would only go back as per (2). This means that the clip is on the metal lug, which may make it more suspetable to rust in the future.


Oli.

 

[Alpine]

Oli

I think I know the answer to your question, which goes to show that I really must fill my spare time with something more interesting !

I assume firstly that you are asking about how to keep in place the black plastic trim which hangs at the bottom of the wing.

My clip-on clips were attached to the metal lugs. So the screws went through the trim first and then screwed into the clip-on clips on the metal lugs. So I think it should be option (2).

Glad you managed to sort it in the end. Good luck with the other side.