RV8 Conversions

Guest · Dec 26, 2006

Im sure ive seen this done a few times but can someone tell me whats involved?

Well actually 1st what engine conversions have people done? Something thats not going to cost a arm and a leg to rebuild? Other wise a 944 turbo engine would be the best bet!

So RV8's? say 3.9 twin plenum. Whats needed and what problems are there?

Custom engine mounts will obviously need to be fabricated

Bellhousing? having looked on ebay theres a chap whos mated a 944 clutch to the rv8 crank and used a standard bellhousing but your buying a steel plate it seems.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Porsche-944-to-rover-V8-3500-adapter-plate_W0QQitemZ280063282174QQihZ018QQcategoryZ10408QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So if you can get away with a 944 clutch it seems rather straight forward.

What about the electrics?

Is there any people on here or any links on the internet i can look at on subject?

thanks

sawood12 · Dec 26, 2006

This topic has been discussed several times since i've been on the forum. I did a search for 'v8 conversions' and got plenty of hits:-

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/searchpro.asp?phrase=v8+conversion&author=&forumid=15&topicreply=both&message=body&timeframe=%3E&timefilter=0&language=single&top=300&criteria=AND&submitbutton=+OK+

Guest · Dec 26, 2006

Thanks, i did a search first but most of the stuff is LS1 related.

Ill try looking abit harder as i only went through the thread titles.

Fen · Dec 26, 2006

I think it is almost all LS1 related. Personally I don't see the point in using the Rover lump; it's physically bigger and no lighter than the Chevy one, but much, much less powerful.

John Sims · Dec 27, 2006

I'm with Fen, and have some first hand experience of Rover V8s - Stuns me how little power they manage to produce. They sound great - what V8 doesn't - but other than being cheap, and sounding great, it strikes me as a not particularly quick, and very pointless, way to ruin a perfectly good car.

I think the V8 is way too high, and says ROVER on the rocker covers [

]. If it said Ford or Chevy it wouldn't be quite so bad..... at least then it would have 7 ltrs to shout with. Though I'm still not happy with that as a concept.

eastendr · Dec 28, 2006

I think the best thing to do with the Rover V8 is to bore it out to 4.6 litre then fit a Range Rover around it [

][

]

iainfuller · Dec 28, 2006

I seem to recall stumbling across a web page a few years ago featuring an early Lux which had the Rover V8 transplant, from memory I think the guy was a mechanic for one of the F1 teams. But if your're running a Lux it would surely be easier and cheaper to upgrade to an S2 or Turbo and you'll still have a quicker car - a standard 3.5 only pushes out about 190bhp doesn't it?

zcacogp · Dec 29, 2006

ORIGINAL: iainfuller

I seem to recall stumbling across a web page a few years ago featuring an early Lux which had the Rover V8 transplant, from memory I think the guy was a mechanic for one of the F1 teams. But if your're running a Lux it would surely be easier and cheaper to upgrade to an S2 or Turbo and you'll still have a quicker car - a standard 3.5 only pushes out about 190bhp doesn't it?

I *think* that was on Pistonheads somewhere - didn't the guy also make some super-lightweight rear spoiler for the waggon as well?

I recall that it got a very good write-up.

Oli.

ad2015 · Dec 29, 2006

this is the one:

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=105&i=7895

zcacogp · Dec 30, 2006

ORIGINAL: ad

this is the one:

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=105&i=7895

'tis indeed.

Heavily modified RV8. And produced around 300bhp/ftlb's.

Not *that* much compared with the LS1 conversions.

Oli.

Fen · Dec 30, 2006

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

ORIGINAL: ad

this is the one:

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=105&i=7895

Click to expand...

'tis indeed.

Heavily modified RV8. And produced around 300bhp/ftlb's.

Not *that* much compared with the LS1 conversions.

Oli.

...or a Turbo engine with mild mods.

944s2 · Dec 30, 2006

Apart from nice noise and satisfaction of doing it whats the point? a decent turbo with a bit of fettling would leave it for dead

zcacogp · Dec 30, 2006

ORIGINAL: Fen
...or a Turbo engine with mild mods.

Go on, rub it in! Those Turbo's have so much more power than the dullo, boggo, slow-o S2's! >Looks hatefully at the 203bhp power plot from earlier in the year<

(Sorry, just got wasted in Dagenham (eugh[:'(]) by a Ford [:'(] Esc-rot [:'(][:'(] RS Turbo [:'(][:'(][:'(] with a silly big exhaust [:'(][:'(][:'(][:'(], hence have a slight aversion to anything 'turbo' at the moment!)

Oli.

wjk_glynn · Dec 31, 2006

ORIGINAL: 944s2

Apart from nice noise and satisfaction of doing it whats the point? a decent turbo with a bit of fettling would leave it for dead

Would agree if you were comparing to a RV8.

But a Gen-III or Gen-IV GM small block (LS1, LS2, LS6, LS7) are significantly stronger the Rover engine and (stateside) are relatively inexpensive to modify. They're quite light as well and are only a small bit heavier than the 4-cylinder 944/968 engine. Reliable as well.

Just as an example, you can buy a used 5.7-liter LS1 with about 20K miles on it for about $3K here in California -- and with an extra $1,500 in parts, you can get about 400-bhp out of it. Or you can buy a brand new 7.0L 500-hp LS7 engine (used in the current Z06) for $13K and it comes with a 100K mile warranty. Just try asking your local OPC for the price of a brand new 480-hp 997 TT engine with all the plumbing...

Now I'm not advocating anyone do a V8 conversion. Not my cup of tea, but to a certain set of folks, it is an interesting and viable option.

Karl.

PS: In addition to the cost of an engine, V8 conversion costs an additional $10K to $20K (depending on state emission complicance regulations) when all is said and done. A PowerHaus turbocharged 400-hp 3.0L engine for say a 944 Turbo runs about $25K.

John Sims · Dec 31, 2006

And another thing....[

]

Big engines are always big engines, turbo engines become big engines when you press the loud pedal, but are small(er) engines when you don't. You would be stunned how much a V8 can drink, no matter how gently you drive it.

I have one or two chummies with V8 Westfields. Their routes are pretty much plotted from petrol station to petrol station. Great for a quick sprint to the shops and back, but not so good for touring Scotland. Obviously the tank on a 944 is bigger than that on a Westfield, but you will not believe how tedious garage forecourts become if you have to visit them every 100 miles.

I appreciate that, when striving for performance, fuel consumption is not a consideration but how much fun would it be to fill up the car twice on a track day?

Fen · Dec 31, 2006

I already fill up twice on a track day. I think I worked out sub 6mpg from the Turbo at Oulton. How much worse can it get?

Looks like we have come full-circle in that we are saying the only V8 worth doing is a Chevy one. Karl; why do you say $10k minimum to get one running? I've priced up the Renegade Hybrids kit and it seems pretty comprehensive and doesn't run anywhere near that much even if you let them talk you into their (unnecessary) cooling system.

wjk_glynn · Jan 1, 2007

ORIGINAL: Fen

Karl; why do you say $10k minimum to get one running? I've priced up the Renegade Hybrids kit and it seems pretty comprehensive and doesn't run anywhere near that much even if you let them talk you into their (unnecessary) cooling system.

Hi Fen,

You're absolutely right regarding the parts costs. I should have been more clear that my $10K number also included labour (or labor as they call it over here) costs.

In Spring of 2006, I called Renegade Hybrids asking them if they did the conversions themselves and if so how much.

They said they do lots of conversions for customers and yhey told me the swing was $10K to $20K for parts and labour. Some of the swing was on parts options, but the single biggest component was if the customer wanted to get their car registered in California.

Here in California, the smog complicance and car modification rules are quite strict. If you follow the letter of California state law, you have to go through a rather arduous certification process. if you put in a new engine from a different model of car, it must include all the same associated smog control equipment that came from the donor model. So for example, if you transplanted an LS1 from a Camero into a 944, the Camero's ECU, air pumps, cats, etc all have to be installed in the 944. Its a lot more work, hence the additional cost. Renegade Hybrids had done a few 944s for California customers and when everything was added up, it cost them $20K.

BTW, Renegade Hybrids labour rates were quite reasonable at about $70/hour. They are located at the end of the strip in Las Vegas. Where I live in Northern California, an independent Porsche mechanic charges about $120-$130/hour. So it would be well worth the 9-hour drive for someone in California to take a car to them and have them do the actual conversion. Plus it would be hard to find a more qualified shop to do the conversion

Now of course, if you're skilled with a wrench, you could do the work yourself and save a lot of the cost.

Karl.

Fen · Jan 1, 2007

I get my labour at under £30/hr and we don't have any of the certification hassles here, we only have to convince someone to insure it. I have a guy in the UK who can build me a brand new engine from new parts (with a warranty) to my spec or I could go second hand (slightly wary of importing a used engine unseen from the US however). Then I just need some mounts (can get universal ones from the engine builder) and a means of attaching the engine to the trans (using RH bellhosuing) and then a custom exhaust. I've already got a standalone EMS and the simple solution to the cooling system is to blank the front of the LS block completely and fit an in-hose electric pump. I'm nearly (re)convinced to do it in fact

wjk_glynn · Jan 1, 2007

ORIGINAL: John Sims

And another thing....[]

Big engines are always big engines, turbo engines become big engines when you press the loud pedal, but are small(er) engines when you don't. You would be stunned how much a V8 can drink, no matter how gently you drive it.

I have one or two chummies with V8 Westfields. Their routes are pretty much plotted from petrol station to petrol station. Great for a quick sprint to the shops and back, but not so good for touring Scotland. Obviously the tank on a 944 is bigger than that on a Westfield, but you will not believe how tedious garage forecourts become if you have to visit them every 100 miles.

I appreciate that, when striving for performance, fuel consumption is not a consideration but how much fun would it be to fill up the car twice on a track day?

I've always heard the same thing, but out of curiousity I looked at the EPA fuel consumption for Corvettes versus the 997. Now these are not "loud-pedal" test conditions by any means, but interesting none the less. The miles-per-gallon numbers are listed in city/highway format...

Corvette with 400-bhp 6.0L V8 = 18/28
Z06 with 500-bhp 7.0L V8 = 16/26

997 with 325-bhp 3.6L F6 = 20/26
997 TT with 480-bhp 3.6L turbocharged F6 = 17/25

Around town, the Porsches have a bit better fuel economy, and the Corvettes are a bit better in highway conditions.

So modern V8s (or more accurately with modern engine managment) can be reasonably fuel efficient under the EPA test conditions. Now as regards WOT conditions, I've no experience or data.

Edit: Tweaked the last sentence just above.

Karl.

PS: Don't forget a US gallon is about 80% as large as an Imperial gallon