S2 Chips
- Thread starter zcacogp
- Start date
AndrewS
Member
Hi All,
If anybody wants to try a 944S2 chip on the day - I'll bring along a few. No charge (unless you decide to keep it). You will notice more difference driving the car and results are varaible (due to age and wear on what is now at least a 16 year old car). A dyno run is done at full throttle - hence will not show any differences applied to the idle or 3D partial map. Peak power gains will be moderate - don't expect much more than 5 to 10bhp (we have seen higher - and lower). You can download the fitting instructions at http://www.promaxmotorsport.com/instructions/promax_performance_chip_installation_guide.pdf
It's a zero risk way of trying if interested. Further details here: http://www.promaxmotorsport.com/promaxchip.htm
Regards,
Andrew
If anybody wants to try a 944S2 chip on the day - I'll bring along a few. No charge (unless you decide to keep it). You will notice more difference driving the car and results are varaible (due to age and wear on what is now at least a 16 year old car). A dyno run is done at full throttle - hence will not show any differences applied to the idle or 3D partial map. Peak power gains will be moderate - don't expect much more than 5 to 10bhp (we have seen higher - and lower). You can download the fitting instructions at http://www.promaxmotorsport.com/instructions/promax_performance_chip_installation_guide.pdf
It's a zero risk way of trying if interested. Further details here: http://www.promaxmotorsport.com/promaxchip.htm
Regards,
Andrew
944turboS
New member
The car feels like it picks up quicker (increased torque) with the chip fitted, it's still nothing like the Turbos but for what I paid for the ECU & chip separatly I'm happy to wait for dyno graphs to see if there is any measurable difference.
The change over will only take a couple of seconds on the day to move the plud over.
The change over will only take a couple of seconds on the day to move the plud over.
Chaps,
I still haven't had time to look at the ECU number on my S2, but hope to find 10 minutes to pull it out this weekend.
However, having eMailed Richard (EEC Tuner) of blitz chips twice over the last week, I have yet to have a reply, so am rapidly concluding that he has moved on, or gone out of business. On this basis, I would have less reservation over finding one of his chips and plugging it into an EPROM reader.
On this basis, is there going to be anyone at Silverstone who has an S2 with one of the Blitz chips installed?
Oli.
I still haven't had time to look at the ECU number on my S2, but hope to find 10 minutes to pull it out this weekend.
However, having eMailed Richard (EEC Tuner) of blitz chips twice over the last week, I have yet to have a reply, so am rapidly concluding that he has moved on, or gone out of business. On this basis, I would have less reservation over finding one of his chips and plugging it into an EPROM reader.
On this basis, is there going to be anyone at Silverstone who has an S2 with one of the Blitz chips installed?
Oli.
xenon
New member
Oli
I had an email the other week from Andrew at ProMax. He tells me that they acquired all of the Blitz chip coding and that's what they now sell. They have developed the maps some more themselves. Andrew is going to bring some of his chips to Silverstone - but he won't be keen on you copying them [8D]
I had an email the other week from Andrew at ProMax. He tells me that they acquired all of the Blitz chip coding and that's what they now sell. They have developed the maps some more themselves. Andrew is going to bring some of his chips to Silverstone - but he won't be keen on you copying them [8D]
xenon
New member
Thinking about chips I'd like to pose the following question: Why don't the manufacturers do it to start with?
Before you all flock to your keyboards, I know why they don't do this on turbo cars, especially nowadays. Extended service intervals, sealed-for-life gearboxes, variable fuel and servicing quality across the global market, variable operating conditions and so on. For example, the twin-turbo BMW 335d can be given a massive power and torque increase with a chip - BMW don't do this because of the hammer the transmission will take and the increase in engine stress will result in higher warranty expense if every rep-mobile is tuned to the max. If you want to increase the power as an enthuisiast then you'll probably take care of it, change the oil regularly, use quality petrol, etc. etc. - even then you'll lose your warranty.
However, it's different with normally aspirated cars. Even the sellers of these chips warn you not to expect too much in terms of increased specific output, but the car will be more 'driveable'. If that's the case it begs the question why the big R&D teams at Porsche didn't do this to start with.
I can understand that the chip still may be a bit generic and can see the benefit in doing a 'live-map' on a specific vehicle, but if these after-market chips are for 'any 944S2' will it be so much better than the original? It's easy to spot gains on a turbo car because the gains can be significant, but I wonder if, on a NA car, feelings of big driveability improvements are 'auto-suggestion'?
Before you all flock to your keyboards, I know why they don't do this on turbo cars, especially nowadays. Extended service intervals, sealed-for-life gearboxes, variable fuel and servicing quality across the global market, variable operating conditions and so on. For example, the twin-turbo BMW 335d can be given a massive power and torque increase with a chip - BMW don't do this because of the hammer the transmission will take and the increase in engine stress will result in higher warranty expense if every rep-mobile is tuned to the max. If you want to increase the power as an enthuisiast then you'll probably take care of it, change the oil regularly, use quality petrol, etc. etc. - even then you'll lose your warranty.
However, it's different with normally aspirated cars. Even the sellers of these chips warn you not to expect too much in terms of increased specific output, but the car will be more 'driveable'. If that's the case it begs the question why the big R&D teams at Porsche didn't do this to start with.
I can understand that the chip still may be a bit generic and can see the benefit in doing a 'live-map' on a specific vehicle, but if these after-market chips are for 'any 944S2' will it be so much better than the original? It's easy to spot gains on a turbo car because the gains can be significant, but I wonder if, on a NA car, feelings of big driveability improvements are 'auto-suggestion'?
You make a very good point Ian, it's something I've often wondered myself. I can understand that winding turbos up to higher levels of boost will yield more power (at the expense of higher fuel consumption and lower reliabilty). However I can't understand how re-mapping a chip can produce greater power throughout the rev range combined with less fuel consumption as is usually claimed in the after market chip adverts.
In terms of fuel-air ratio, maximum power, best fuel economy and minimum emissions are all trade-offs. It is not possible to maximise all 3 or even any 2 simultaniously. Power peaks when the mixture is rich (lambda about 0.86), overall emissions are minimised with a stoichiometric air-fuel ratio (lambda = 1) and fuel consumption is minimised when the mixture is weak (lambda is about 1.05). Assuming the engine is delivered from the factory with the best overall compromise (with the mixture set to stoichiometric), then I can understand a re-map could yield more power but not combined with better fuel economy as they often claim.
Are these chip adverts being economical with the truth or am I missing something here?
In terms of fuel-air ratio, maximum power, best fuel economy and minimum emissions are all trade-offs. It is not possible to maximise all 3 or even any 2 simultaniously. Power peaks when the mixture is rich (lambda about 0.86), overall emissions are minimised with a stoichiometric air-fuel ratio (lambda = 1) and fuel consumption is minimised when the mixture is weak (lambda is about 1.05). Assuming the engine is delivered from the factory with the best overall compromise (with the mixture set to stoichiometric), then I can understand a re-map could yield more power but not combined with better fuel economy as they often claim.
Are these chip adverts being economical with the truth or am I missing something here?
Diver944
Active member
I'm with both you guys which is why my S2 isn't chipped, the minor gains just aren't worth it IMHO
Most of them are written with 98 RON Super Unleaded in mind so there is a small gain to be had there if the timing is set for higher octane fuel but I am willing to bet that an awful lot of people with chips still put in 95 RON
Most of them are written with 98 RON Super Unleaded in mind so there is a small gain to be had there if the timing is set for higher octane fuel but I am willing to bet that an awful lot of people with chips still put in 95 RON
Manufactures will always err on the side of caution. You can see this, even with Porsche, where later versions of the same car obtain higher performance from nothing more than a remap. This also helps marketing of course.
Manufacturers chips (particularly in the International 944) have to work in all market locations/climates and with all market emission regulations. They also have to ensure that the car is drivable by Lewis Hamilton or his Granny. Granny Hamilton doesn't like cars that you have to rev to get away from the traffic lights because all of the power and torque is at 4K+. Performance tuners can throw all of those constraints out of the window.
Will an alternative chip make your car better? In certain circumstances perhaps yes. You may perhaps sacrifice cold weather starting or super hot weather reliability, or the ability to pull away on tick over, or something else. Manufacturers can test their cars in every conceivable climate and condition.....a man in a shed can't.
Ya pays ya money ya takes ya choice. [
]
Manufacturers chips (particularly in the International 944) have to work in all market locations/climates and with all market emission regulations. They also have to ensure that the car is drivable by Lewis Hamilton or his Granny. Granny Hamilton doesn't like cars that you have to rev to get away from the traffic lights because all of the power and torque is at 4K+. Performance tuners can throw all of those constraints out of the window.
Will an alternative chip make your car better? In certain circumstances perhaps yes. You may perhaps sacrifice cold weather starting or super hot weather reliability, or the ability to pull away on tick over, or something else. Manufacturers can test their cars in every conceivable climate and condition.....a man in a shed can't.
Ya pays ya money ya takes ya choice. [
]
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