Seam Welded RS...??

[Matt]

Theres been a few discussions about the seam welding on the RS vs. the standard 964's in the past, and I have never seen a definitive answer..however; whilst leafing through Adrians 964 book last night (it was either that or Big Brother[]), theres 3 diagrams showing where an RS is seam welded. They even look like factory diagrams..Pages 325, 326 & 327. If I can be arsed I might go out and check the car later

 

[Guest]

Yes they were seam welded, spoke to a guy who actually visited the production line and watched the process on the 964RS in 1992.......

 

[Guest]

Speaking to my tech, he said that only Clubbies were seam welded.

Certainly my 964RS (normal lightweight, 0650 production number) wasn't when it was inspected at shell-up rebuild.

 

[Guest]

You must have one of the dodgy C2 Shells or the geezer could not tell or know the difference....all 964RS should have been be built on the Cup Car chassis and seam welded in I believe in three key areas. This has been confirmed to me by several experts and a real bona fide body repairer who specialises in rebuilding these cars on a daily basis........as well as a first hand visit as above[]

 

[pncarrerars]

Mine is seam welded as per drawings in the factory manual. Lightweight #1816.

Pete

 

[lee fulford]

Give us a clue then...How do we tell?

lee

 

[Guest]

I will check with my tech, but pretty sure mine is not a ringer ;-) When it went for rebuild it was part seam welded. The mystery of seam welding may yet continue...

 

[Guest]

Part seam welded correct Domster.................[&:]

WAKEY WAKEY WAKEY @ THE BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Sorry Uncle Des.

Must pay more attention in class.

[8|]

 

[Matt]

Lee
would take ages to explain, as its loads of little bits here & there

i've not got a scanner to scan in the images to share - could go & photocopy them if you wanted..?

 

[Laurence Gibbs]

The pictures in the manual and Adrians book, I think I'm correct in saying refer to the welding of strengthening plates (for roll cage fitment, i.e. clubsport or cup spec RS models) and other modifications involved with the modified rear section of the rear seat panel. I do not believe they refer directly to the seam welding of the chassis of the standard RS shell.
Des, I have had a long conversation with the well respected specialist to which you refer (he was at club night) he tells me 964 RS no seam welding GT3 cup cars etc yes.
Until I see something in writing from Porsche saying differently I am of the opinion it's urban myth. Though it could be quibbled that the Cup spec or clubsport RS's are indeed seam welded in places. And no doubt some seam welds are present in the modified rear section.
I will be only too happy to be proved wrong.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Laurence Gibbs

And no doubt some seam welds are present in the modified rear section.

I think we are all reading too much into this topic, as you say above Laurence you have no doubt and your magnum opus Buyers Guide November 2002 also refers to seam welds...just had a little tour round Google and found many references to seam welded chassis etc from much respected experts in all their write ups there is mention of seam welding......I have also been under the strong belief since first showing interest in the RS by previous RS owners and many well regarded technicians that the 964RS has seam welds....so I am only going on the vast mass of information given to me. As referred to before, as above, Mike Bradley who know's his stuff was physically present on the production line watching them do it. He actually volunteered this information to me without me raising the subject, remarking specifically on this point.

Sean also confirmed to me the same that the 964RS had seam welds he was very specific and I will be asking him to elaborate for Porsche Post. Maybe we are talking cross purposes, all I am saying is there are some seam welds on the 964RS which do not exist on the C2/4. The truth is out there........

I shall be contacting the factory direct to get the bottom line, whilst doing so are there any other 964RS myths we need to expel let me know and I will include it in the same e-mail.

Just thinking aloud, as a mythical car the 964RS is probably the biggest myth of all........[]

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: domster
When it went for rebuild it was part seam welded.

Another witness M'lud........

 

[Matt]

adrians book apppears to show seam welding not directly related to roll cage fitment...although this is opinion after a couple of bottles of decent shiraz[].
need someone with a "normal" RS in south west london willing to do a comparison with a clubsport?? anyone out there sad enough to compare seam welds?

edited to correct shpelling mishtakes

 

[Guest]

Matt pleased to compare welds........not SW London but Bromley SE London bring a good digital camera if you have one.

desmond.sturdee@ntlworld.com

 

[Laurence Gibbs]

When I see some info from porsche I will believe it Des. First off I find it highly unlikely that Mike Bradley was allowed in the welding area whilst welding was going on or at anytime, due to the nature of the processes! Second anyone taking him around would have been equally unlikely to have an idea of what a seem weld was(you've been to the factory who takes you round?!)! thirdly far more likely is that he saw some painted shells or unpainted ones which almost certainly would have had their welds covered in caulking or seam sealant. And the enthusiastic guide "put a good sales pitch on" , bear in mind Porsches financial situation at the time! I am not saying he did'nt see it but I am sceptical at what "it" was.
Yes there are a few articles that mention seam welded chassis these same articles also mention strut braces as standard and mis-quote hp figures and even basic spec. Some no doubt getting their 3.8 RSR mixed up along the way. Put simply you can't rely on there accuracy.
I don't believe (until someone comes up with some Paperwork from Porsche) that the standard 964 RS has any additional "structual rigidity improving seam welds" over and above what was required to fit the modified rear seat panel/bulkhead.
The 993RS on the other hand does and Porsche made a great deal of noise about how the RS 993 was stiffened over a standard car. Ditto for the GT3.
We may at least be talking at cross purposes. Sean appeared to concur with my thoughts when talking to him a couple of weeks ago. I just don't believe the 964 RS shell has been reinforced in the way that later cars are. The shell and it's welding are exactly the same as the standard C2 save for the modified rear seat section.

 

[Yoda]

Hi Matt. I am in Chiswick and have a normal RS if you want to take a look.

No idea what I am looking for though ......... you would have to show me/explain.

And yes, I am sad enough [][] all in the interests of solving lifes little mysteries.

Regards

 

[Guest]

See JZ Machtech Visit thread...........[]

 

[mark piper]

I think you'll find that the RS was seam welded in certain areas - the front strut mounts for instance. In addition, I know that some RSs were built up from shells that did not have any of the standard C2 captive nuts installed (mine was such), whereas others were. If you ever pull the carpet up, look for the circular cutouts for the mounting points for rear belts by the transmission tunnel - if there's no plug and only another layer of metal visible, you have a shell that has no captive nuts.

As to whether the "captive nut shells" were standard C2 or not, I can't comment. I believe it was Adrian Palmer who coined the phrase "lightweight shells" for the non-captive nuts, but I'm an old man and my memory fails me from time to time.

I've even seen ex cup cars that appear not to have been totally seam welded...

 

[Guest]

Yes Mark, I have always maintained that the 964RS Shell was part seam welded and different to that of the C2.........your captive nuts scenario lends weight to this and that some shells could differ! This also reinforces the strong rumour that the factory ran out of the original shells and used the C2 shell for later and RHD production, now this is rumour but from a very reliable source.......[]

So let's please take up your suggestion Matt...Bromley/Chiswick, wherever let's get together and look at our welds..........maybe a C2 as well...

HELLO MATT are you still here?