Serious Engine Problem

[AndrewEllinas]

I've had my 996 from as new in 2001 (it was a demonstrator) and have done 66,000 miles.

It's been meticulously maintained by Porsche main dealers in Hatfield. I've never missed a service and, in fact, have had extra services carried out to keep it in tip top condition. It was last in to be serviced in October. It's in almost perfect condition, no scratches, wheels refurbished etc.

I've paid for the extended warranty every year till it ran out about 2/3 weeks ago. You can't renew it for cars over 9 years old.

Driving to work last week, crawling in London traffic, the engine stalled and starting making a horrible noise. It sounded like something inside the engine had broken. I switched off the engine and the car was taken on a flat bed by the RAC to Porsche in Hatfield.

I've had a call this afternoon to say that they are still not 100% certain what the problem is and that they won't know till they take the gearbox off. If it's what they suspect, the car will need either a new engine (£14K) or a rebuild (£10kish).

Two questions for your advice/knowledge:

1. Have you heard of this type of issue happening before? If so, what has been the outcome?

2. What do you think of my chances of successfully appealing to Porsche UK's sense of fairplay and allowing an insurance claim to go through?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Regards

Andrew

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Andrew, I've very sorry to hear of your woes.
If the car was bought/serviced and warrantied by Porsche then you may have a chance at a goodwill claim. It's age will count against it however.

Did the car dump lots of oil at the time? If so then it sounds like the Intermediate Shaft Bearing has given way and it's terminal.
I would give Barry at Hartech a call, they rebuild these engines to better than new (making sure that the problem won't happen again). They offer a very good servicing plan and warranty too.
Hartech and Autofarm are the two main reputable companies that deal with these issues at much lower expense than at your OPC.

Good luck.

 

[DivineE]

I strongly second the Hartech recommendation as a 2nd option (could/should half that bill) but definitely try the warranty option first through the OPC you've always used.

 

[chrismouzou]

i had a 996 cab bought from new was three weeks out of 2year warranty had part engine failure-porsche repaired as a gesture of goodwill-but it was my third porsche bought from them


chris

 

[AndrewEllinas]

Thank you.

I suppose one of my options is to use it as a trade in with Porsche Hatfield against another car. But that does put me in a weak bargaining position.

 

[DivineE]

ORIGINAL: AndrewEllinas

Thank you.

I suppose one of my options is to use it as a trade in with Porsche Hatfield against another car. But that does put me in a weak bargaining position.

But a strong one with the missus for getting a new Porsche [] 'I had to because the old one would have cost too much to repair'[]

 

[John Ware]

GT1 engine, GT1 engine, GT1 engine. You know what that means ............................ []

Your only decision now is whether you need back seats and 4wd or not. []

 

[thirteeneast]

Sorry to hear your bad news,


I will say what everyone want to tell you, The word on the tip of everyone's tongues is "IMS" as Rodney suggested.
Having your car only serviced at Porsche naturally you would never have heard of such an issue as therefore Porsche would be admitting failure.

Do you self a favour and get it rebuilt by one of the independents.

Once again sorry to hear your bad news.

How often was the oil changed out of curiosity?.

 

[thirteeneast]

Sorry just had to quote from your original post. "Made me smile"

ORIGINAL: AndrewEllinas


I've had a call this afternoon to say that they are still not 100% certain what the problem is and that they won't know till they take the gearbox off.  If it's what they suspect, the car will need either a new engine (£14K) or a rebuild (£10kish).

After 10+ years of IMS failure and there still not sure!.
Man these tech's at Porsche are slow on the uptake.

 

[AndrewEllinas]

Yes, it is an intermediate shaft failure.

I had the oil changed at least twice a year and kept it meticulously topped up. The car has been used almost every day, I've never trashed it and it's never been on a track. For a major fault to occur in an engine that has been so well looked after and only done 66,000 doesn't seem right to me.

Anyone got a good recommendation for a specialist to carry out the repair? I've spoken to JZ Machtech who seem very knowledgeable and who tell me they get 20 -30 calls about this from owners with intermediate shaft failures in 996s per annum.

 

[steveoz32]

I would have said Autofarm or hartech.

Hartech 'may' be able to do a base rebuild half of what the OPC told you, but if you want upgrades and other work in there then it would be more like 7k+ perhaps - just depends on how bad the failure was and where swarf / debri has got stuck as well as how much damage to internals colliding, but those two places would be my first thoughts.

Either way good luck, i hope it all gets sorted out without too much pain.

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

+1 for Hartech. They are usually considerably cheaper than others, and have some innovative solutions to effect a permanent repair. Give them a call.

 

[seveschmitz@aol.com]

Sorry to hear about your engine problems.

I cannot believe that Porsche will not help you out here! You said that you have always had Porsche warranty, since 2001 and it only ran out 2/3 weeks ago? Surely they are going to make you a good will offer here!!!!!!!

A new Porsche engine with 2 years warranty is the least they ca do [].

 

[Peter_Bull]

ORIGINAL: seveschmitz@aol.com

Sorry to hear about your engine problems.

I cannot believe that Porsche will not help you out here! You said that you have always had Porsche warranty, since 2001 and it only ran out 2/3 weeks ago? Surely they are going to make you a good will offer here!!!!!!!

A new Porsche engine with 2 years warranty is the least they ca do [].

Any decent motor manufacturer would do that - but don't hold your breath and expect help from Porsche! Their customer service track record is appalling.

 

[AndrewEllinas]

Porsche are considering whether to help out. The service department chap is as sympathetic as he can be, so just have to keep my fingers crossed and wait.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

ORIGINAL: AndrewEllinas

Porsche are considering whether to help out.  The service department chap is as sympathetic as he can be, so just have to keep my fingers crossed and wait.

I'm sure they'll do the right thing, you are a good customer. Fingers crossed for you.

 

[thirteeneast]

Tell them you posted on here and we diagnosed it A: Before they did. B:without seeing the Car.
Login then they can read up, they may learn something.
They could use Google even.

How are they so unsure of such a common failure?
What cars do they work on? Fords?.

My RMS "slightly off topic"
Had to be done three times by Main dealer before they got it right one time it lasted 10 Days. The car was 6 month old.

Funny how I have three Cars none of which get taken to main dealer.

I wish you luck.

Regards.

Sorry just for some info:
This was on one of the US Forum's

"Just sold (gave away) my '99 carrera in Germany for 18,000 euro.. 115,000km, PZ serviced, immaculate mechanically and visually.. When I bought this car here four years ago for 35,000 euro I had heard about some select engine issues and was told that 15 - 20% of the early 996's were effected.
More recently I have heard that 80 - 90% of 996's will suffer failures sooner or later.. Porsche dealerships in Germany immediately resell traded 996's to smaller dealers and most Germans wont buy a Porsche without dealer warranty. 996 prices are still dropping and the replacement engine price is now 50% of the cars value!
Thank god I didnt have an engine failure! 35,000 purchase price + 8,000 new engine = 43,000. market value 20,000?! DISASTEROUS!
I have always been a great supporter of the Porsche brand and have enjoyed my 911 driving experience beyond expectation BUT I feel screwed. I personally believe that Porsche has been remarkably evasive and dishonest.
I wonder if many other longer term 996's owners feel that porsche has responsibilities beyond standard warranty with this model ?!
I was considering getting a 997 now but do not have the confidence or respect to go there".

I Have to agree.

 

[bazhart]

I am not sure if you are in the mood to wade through all the technical explanations and details relating to youtr failure - but if you have already looked at section 4 of our buyers guide (about 996 engine failures) and not found an explanation about your particular failure - you might like to know that we have just managed to make section 5 of our buyers guide available on the Internet by going to our web site www.hartech.org and buyers guide section 5 or by this link This section brings the other one up to date with more information on some new failures afflicting later (but not gen 2) engines.
http://www.hartech.org/docs/buyers%20guide%20web%20format%20Dec%202010%20part%205.pdf . (n.b. section 5 follows the foreward)

This explains in detail the differences between the 3.4 Cayman S, 3.6 and 3.8 engines (the models that exhibit cylinder scoring problems) and earlier engines, the potential causes and various new solutions and road test results INCLUDING A RELATIVELY INEXPENSIVE SOLUTION.

For those wanting faster answers "" whilst increased piston to cylinder wall loading results from increased bottom end torque "" at the same time changes to the coolant flow and distribution increase the temperature of localised hot spots and in some combinations of driver style, other older typical wear/age related problems, and general deterioration - push them beyond safe levels in an engine type already running hotter (but previously better balanced) temperatures than older typical designs. The result in some combinations of circumstances is too thin an oil film being unable to keep the piston and cylinder wall apart safely and resulting scoring of the piston and cylinder.

Fitting a lower temperature thermostat (while checking out other contributory factors) will lower the odds of you experiencing this failure while new exclusive pistons and modifications to the inside of the engine during a rebuild - will reduce repair costs further and protect against a reoccurrence.

All this research, design, rebuilding, testing and sharing our results with everyone takes up enormous amounts of time and energy "" hence often too little left to promote our excellent standard products and services in a more market orientated "" reader friendly style "" sorry - but I hope the information will help those unsure what to do to protect their interests, enable them to fully enjoy this fantastic model range and if they are unfortunate enough to experience the consequences (which is extremely unlikely) "" remember to call Hartech first before potentially incurring unnecessary expense elsewhere that cannot then undertake the same quality or value for money repairs and preventative measures.

My very best wishes and good luck for the New Year "" until then

Baz

 

[AlexBell]

Hi Baz, thanks for some very useful info (will probably take me a few days to read through...)

Just a short question, does the X51 option reduce the risk of these problems (different pistons,rings etc) or doesn't that influence those matters at all?

Thanks

Alex

 

[hollows]

Good article in latest addition (Number 69) of Total 911. The article gives a good simple explaination of the IMS problem.

Hartech or Autofarm both a good option.

Good luck