shall I?

[Guest]

Hi

1st post here and I lnow little about 964's... I own a boxster S which is just about sold so I am going to look at a lovely maritime blue MY 93 C2 coupe which has done 60k with full history and bills etc

I am very gratefull of help in this area as I know very little about these cars and this is not the sensible choice for me considering I am going to be doing 15-20k per year visiting customers.

1, the car if sound, would be okay for the sort of mileage i intend to do?

2, would the yearly maintenance costs be massive?

3, can I get a comprehensive warranty on a car this age?

4, whats it like to drive in traffic?

5, have I picked the right model with 18-20k to spend?

so I guess it seems like a gamble for me but I want a car with real charachter and I have always looked at these as a boy and thought '1 day!'

Thanks again

Lee

 

[tim_haskins]

hi
hope this helps but it will be interesting to see the veiws of others.

1) The 964 will do this sort of millage per anum although it all depends on how your luck is and of course how deep your pockets are!!. Some things for the 964 are very expensive as with any sports car but some other parts are not too bad as well. So it all depends on the problem that occurs. But generally i cant see this sort of millage to be a problem as long as the car is maintained by a OPC or Specilist.

2) The yearly maintance costs are high and bearing in mind the service will be due after 12000 miles so you would need 1 1/2 services per year!! 6000 mile is cheap and alot of people do it themselves. 12000 service from specilist is about 400-500 pounds. 240000 (major) about 700 inc vat parts etc So not too bad although OPC is more expensive as i found out!!!!.

3) Dont know about warranty you would need to ask the dealer.

4) Traffic is ok but the clutch can become a bit heavy.

5) 964 do cost around 15000-17000 mark with some slighty highier for low millage examples. The 993 rhd is about 24000-30000. So quite a big jump in cost although the servicing is slighly cheaper on this model. Older 911 are cheaper as well to run but i find the body shape on the 964 nicer!! (sorry older 911 owners!!).

6) Check the service history to find out if the dual mass flywheel and clutch have been changed because this is reported to fail with some cars around this millage about 1000 pounds to put right!!!. Also check for oil leaks (it is best to do this with the under tray removed) older 964 do tend to leak this was fixed by porsche on later cars and some earlier car have had the problem sorted.This is a very complex car and the best advise i can offer is to get a GOOD SPECIALIST INSPECTION DONE. This is not that much money and could save you a fortune if you by the wrong car.

7) Be sensible dont let your heart rule your mind!!!!!

8) You will love it!!!! but you will find yourself thinking that the service cost is expensive but hey what a car!!!!

hope this helps

Tim

964 targa 93[]

 

[Guest]

hey Tim

very helpful!

unfortunately my heart does seem to rule my mind when it comes to cars but I have to have one I think.

My boxster S while a great and rewarding car to drive are everywhere and I would love to have a piece of beautiful motoring history before it becomes too hard or late for me to achieve!

my other choice is an BMW Mcoupe which is the more sensible car on running/servicing costs and I do love but I have seen this gorgeous 964 at 911virgin and am convincing myself I need it?!

am i being silly?

regards

Lee

 

[tim_haskins]

hi

not being silly!!!

sensible i think (i own one!!)

anyway mine came from 911 virgin (owner before bought from them)and they offer various warrantes on them i believe. They can give you a list of known problems and also i think that they can have all problems seen to. I would still get an independant inspection from someone like jz mechtech. The M coupe is a nice car i had one as well as my 911 for a bit although these are to a penny now. Nice for motorway and good drivers car but i would still rather drive my 964 than my m coupe thats why i sold it. It is expensive to run but i think it is worth it. Also although costs are high (ish). The resale value is better than an m coupe so this can be taken into account and you wouldnt be driving a car every man,dog and friend has got if you went for 964. I can see your problem but you only live once and your along time dead!!!!

tim

 

[kevin]

well,

your servicing costs are miles off.....

Using my local specialist, a 24k service, the most expensive one will cost you the right side of £400 all in. Mine has cost so far in servicing less than 1k for three years of servicing.

But mine is a garage queen doing some 4k/year.

As ever, a PPI is a prerequisite, history is everything, Clutch, DMF, and oil leaks should be checked, make sure EVERYTHING works as it should, pay your money and enjoy the ride.

YMMV.

kevin.

 

[tim_haskins]

hi

not really miles off..

JZ mechtech are quote

24000 mile service 581.62 inc vat
12000 mile sevice 340.75 inc vat
6000 mile 223.65 inc vat

This is plus the usual we found this wrong sir!!

So bearing in mind the milage that he wants to do i say it was a fair estimate.


Tim

 

[tim_haskins]

hi

i had mine service a couple of months ago at OPC and 24000 miles service was as follows:-

Supply touch up pen
Supply new key
Carry out 24000 service
587.50 service cost
95.98 oil
6.00 brake fluid
sevice kit 86.67
service cost total inc vat 911.97 for service plus key etc total bill near 1000 pounds

tim

 

[tim_haskins]

hi

Check

www.porsche964.co.uk

its an informative site and will tell you the cost of 964 ownership. Although kevin has his serviced for a very resonable amount he does a very small yearly millage and therefore i feel it is reflected in the cost, Less mechanical fails etc. The prices i gave you i think are a more relistic figure considering the millage you want to do.Speak to JZ Mechtech they are very help full and will advise on the pros and cons

tim

 

[Guest]

thanks all for your help

the car I am looking at is a tip so should be better in traffic??

Regards

Lee

 

[JCB..]

am i being silly?

Not so much silly but you are overlooking how easy it is to drive the sort of annual mileage you are talking about in a modern car.

I'm sure the 964 is a wonderful car but is it the right one?

JCB..

 

[Guest]

yes John I think that is what it comes down to, 15-20k miles per annum in a 12 year old car, can I do it without too much financial trouble? and is it enjoyable on a work commute?

current car is a Boxster S and last car was a elise so am not adverse to inpracticality and basic motoring(elise)

Lee

 

[kevin]

Lee, have you driven one? seems to suggest you may not have form the post. Get out there and drive a few, and bargain hard with Henry, he can be very obtuse......

JZ come with a good reputation, never used them myself, but I know others who have had good service from them, I use Autostrasse in Coggeshall, they are ok...

Mileage on a 964, well if you read Rennlist as I do, one Canadian recently bought a 264,000 miler and his nearest garage is about 1k away...so looked after right, they can do astronomical mileages, mines coming up to 100k, I know of many others that consider this a young one.....

You are right somewhat about my mileage, however there is an alternative line of thought that suggests lower usage cars are more likely to suffer as they are not being used they way they were designed...so who's correct? I don't know.

I have an old Audi 80TDI, I change the oil every 5k, not 10k as the manual suggests, I do this because I know it's best for longevity of the engine, and yes with hydraulic tappets I can hear when the oil is past its best, as weird as it sounds you get used to these things after 180,000 miles.

Keep away from OPC centres, why, because their hourly rates are silly. Lancasters being £95/hr, they are also not as well versed in older cars as the specialists are. This is not to decry the service they offer, but to put it into perspective.

Look after it well, service it often, do it properly, use it often, join Rennlist, use all the resources you can find, it will be worth it, but please get a PPI first.

kevin.

 

[Melv]

"your servicing costs are miles off..... "??????

"But mine is a garage queen doing some 4k/year. " Well, there ya go.

Budget on £2K per year to cover servicing, incidentals and unplanned maintenance.

That's from six years of 964 C4 ownership averaging 8,000pa and including trackdays.

Car now with a happy lady owner in Aberdeen, daily use throughout the year and totalling IRO 120,000miles.

By one, you won't regret it!!

Digger -you're biased!! [] But, then so am I! []

Mel

 

[Guest]

thanks Kevin

i am really keen on buying one, this model is gorgeous in maritime blue with white leather and looks like an RS

you are right I have not driven one yet and not sure if I will like the TIP but it seems the sensible thing considering the traffic/mileage.

I just need to wiegh the costs up and it doesnt seem too bad if you use a good specialist and can source the bits. I currently use Parr who are very helpful and seem to know older porsches

the fuel shouldnt be much worse than my bos either?

Lee

 

[Guest]

no trackdays for me, and I would look for a warranty

surely this must chip a bit off the 2k that you mention Melv??

but I guess nothing is guarunteed and it depends how lucky you are with a car like this?

Thanks

 

[Andy Tims]

My £0.02

The Boxster S is a MUCH better car than a regular 964.

 

[kevin]

Hi Melv,

I know many a folk who do more mileage than I, and servicing where I do have incurred costs around the same as I.

Autowerke in Norwich have also serviced a friend of mines car who does 10k/year and his costs are comperable, incidentals apart such as tyres apart, and even these can be had for £500 or less make depending.
So if I took my 12k service which is £200 + £500 for tyres, and maybe some minor incidentals I'd still be lucky to broach 1K/yr in total costs....

My guess is that too many people are satisfied with the cost of owning a Porsche to actually say that this is less than satisfactory, I mean 6hrs labour on a 24k service should equate to what in anyones eyes?
Autostrasse for example quote £380 all in. and if I'm not mistaken have a reasonable reputation. Why then pay more?

PLease though remember folks, I'm not saying my way is the only way, just debating the issues of time and cost. Just because it says Porsche on the front/back doesn't mean you need to be taken for a ride, nor be seen as a fool with deep pockets.

kevin.

 

[Guest]

I run my 964 every day and that is around 12-14k/year

Mine is manual, I dont like the tip gear box, but the manual can be hard work in traffic. Petrol costs in traffic will be higher too.

Running costs are higher than average cars. I had to have the brakes serviced inc new front calipers £1k. All sparks and leads replaced £420. Across the year this can add up.

So budget for it, est £200-300/month. If you cant afford this then don't buy the car.

How will your customers react to you arriving in a Porsche?

As for driving a 911 every day, it still puts a smill on my face when in traffic or open roads or sat in the car park.

 

[Guest]

Its the running costs that are my worry, I run a Boxster S at the mo and customers are fine, most of them are into cars so it can make for good conversation.

Is it possible to get a good warranty on a car of this age?

thanks

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: LeeR

Hi

1st post here and I lnow little about 964's... I own a boxster S which is just about sold so I am going to look at a lovely maritime blue MY 93 C2 coupe which has done 60k with full history and bills etc

I am very gratefull of help in this area as I know very little about these cars and this is not the sensible choice for me considering I am going to be doing 15-20k per year visiting customers.

1, the car if sound, would be okay for the sort of mileage i intend to do?

2, would the yearly maintenance costs be massive?

3, can I get a comprehensive warranty on a car this age?

4, whats it like to drive in traffic?

5, have I picked the right model with 18-20k to spend?

so I guess it seems like a gamble for me but I want a car with real charachter and I have always looked at these as a boy and thought '1 day!'

Thanks again

Lee

Les

Good idea, but make sure that you go into 964 ownership with your eyes wide open. All 964s are now more than ten years old. They were very well-made, and are more than capable of being driven 20k miles a year, but you cannot expect to have the same experience living with a 964 as you had with your Boxter.

A '91 964 is my everyday car. I do about 12k miles a year in it, in all sorts from UK urban to Autobahn. I find it entirely usable and practical when it need be, and great fun as well. I live in North Wales, so an open moorland blast is ten minutes away. However, the centre of Manchester or Munich is no problem either. I have dragged along the M6 at 0-40mph, and stormed through Bayern at 150mph, and blasted alpine passes. It takes it all in its stride. BTW, mine is a Tiptronic.

Forget the routine servicing figures - you will spend much more than that! The 964 is the most difficult of all 911s to maintain. It has a very complex engine, but lacks the automatic tappet adjustment that came with the 993, and that makes the routine service a labour-intensive task. This is an old car, and that means things wll go wrong. I will say again: things WILL go wrong. Exhaust parts will fail, oil pipes will leak, electrical bits will fail. No question, that will happen. Buying a low-milage car will not avoid this problem - indeed, many low-milage cars give more problems than well-used examples. A wel-used but well-maintained car is by far the better buy.

However, I have never had a fault with a 964 that stopped it going (but buy a spare DME relay and keep it in the glovebox!!!).

For every 12k miles, I think you need to budget £800 for routine maintenance from a good, non-franchised specialist; £500 for tyres, because the rears don't last long (unless you drive it like a Mondeo); and another £700 for sorting those things that go wrong.

This may seem an awful lot of money, but it is not!

First, you are dealing with a minor supercar, but one that is now a classic rather than a modern car, and its maintenance is just peanuts compared with anything else in its class. My 964 cost £65k in 1991 - that was a serious amount of money then. Look at the contemporary competition - Ferrari 328 - and you will understand just how good the 964 was and is as a car to be driven practically. A 328 would cost three or four times as much to maintain now as a 964 and the seervice intervals are much shorter.

Much more important: look at depreciation. If you maintain it, you will not loose more than about £2k a year on a 964. Buy a 997, you may not spend anything on maintenance in the first year, but I bet you loose £10 to £20k in value!

A 993 is less to maintain, but you need to spend another £10k-15k to buy one, and have so much more to loose.

£18k will buy you a superb low-milage 964. You may be better off spending £16-£17k on a good one with some stone chips and 90k+ miles but great history and keeping a couple of £k back to look after it over the next few years. Keep the car for, say, two years, maintain it, and I bet you would be able to sell it for just a few £k loss.

I owned a 3,2 before my 964. The 3,2 is definately the car of the moment in the world of old 911s, butI think that the derided 964 is better in almost every respect.

So, buy a 964 if you can use a good, independent specialist to look after it, if you can accept that it will develop faults that need fixed, just because you are diving a very wellmade car that is just as old as it is.

But, above all, have the car looked over by an expert before you buy it!!!

A

Regards
Alistair