Skidding Advice

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: MarkK
Here is a link to me getting it as wrong as I ever have, I drove over some oil dropped by a GT3 under full throttle and completey lost it,was having a ding dong with a certain Mr F that hangs around on the 968 forum[]
It happened so quick it was like something snapped...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hockeyshooter/6200816197/

Race 2 by the sound of it. First I spotted it came out of that corner (Aintree?) and got loads of wheel spin in 4th but was already pointing straight so got away with it. After that I tended to avoid the last couple of feet near the exit kerb as that seemed to have the oil worst. Caught a fair few ppl out that one. The car was that Paragon one.

 

[944Turbo]

Glad you escaped unscathed, could have been nasty with other traffic etc.

They can be tricky to catch when they let go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7qCfJcZi_c that's how not to catch it!

I would be finding a big empty car park (if I had some snow) excellent way to practice and discover what the car will do under various conditions, probably would have eased the throttle rather than dumping the clutch - might not have made any difference!

 

[os951]

When it looks outside like this, you learn to drive your 944 quite fluently.

Yesterday morning it was just about -29C even here on the southern part of Finland....

Check out this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZGY93z8YAk

There are several Porsche driving camps which you can attend here in Finland []

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

Could have done it for £10 at the register day last year. Not trying to gloat here, just trying to point out that sometimes there are benefits to being a member! [&o]

Indeed there are - very many of them. Long may they continue. []

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty

I'm going to disagree with everyone here. Forget trying to be clever and explain it, there's no gain to be had from a formula that explains polar momentum over grip, extrapolated via tyre compound and ambient temperature, and gives you a safe speed in snow. The safe speed is VERY SLOW, as in, probably, walking pace. Any faster than walking pace and you can only blame yourself.

...

I've not heard anyone who's got any real driving credentials, be that race, IAM etc., describe the 944 as anything other than incredibly easy to control through oversteer, unless it was inevitable oversteer. Not even an Fi driver can recover when he's terminally sideways, so the only answer is to slow down when conditions are that bad?

Indeed, hence my opening comment. I think the point is just how slow 'safe' is.

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

I would be finding a big empty car park (if I had some snow) excellent way to practice and discover what the car will do under various conditions, probably would have eased the throttle rather than dumping the clutch - might not have made any difference!

Many moons ago I owned a Mk1 Golf GTi for about 6 years, and one snowy New Year a good friend and I did precisely that in it; there was a large and empty station car park near us, and we spent an hour throwing it around in any direction apart from straight ahead. There was no desire on our behalves to do anything other than have fun - we were just a pair of 18 year olds having a laugh, although the lessons learned stood me in very good stead in later years with that that car; I knew precisely how to expect it to behave at the limit, and could maintain control of it even when it was a fairly long way off straight. A 944 however is a very different beast in just about every way, and maybe doing something similar would be no bad idea at all ... thanks for the suggestion.

ORIGINAL: peanut

You were very lucky.

Nick, I think you are exactly right. We were very lucky indeed. (Especially when viewed in the light of the demise of your Lux.)


Oli.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

... loads of wheel spin in 4th ...

S2's, eh? Such raw power ... []


Oli.

 

[Fat Albert]

At Caring with Cars last year there was a very interesting lecture from ann instructor that explained that spins are often caused by a build up of tension between the front and rear tyres. He advocated keeping the weight on the front (ie some braking) deep into the corner to aid in the front end bite, and this reduces the tension between the ends.

Not tried it in real anger, but the car certainly feels more stable in normal B road shenanigans

I spun mine 2 weeks into onwership, luckily no harm done, but obviously all the fault of the rear Diyoung Slipmasters.....[]

 

[Chrishazle]

There's beeen a lot of discussion on the 2 MB forums I frequent, as most MB's are pants in snow - big heavy engine at the front, no weight on the rear, auto transmission, electronics, RWD - my C270 on almost new Falken FK452's was useless last year. Many folk have fitted winter tyres for this winter, and the posts from them all say what an incredible difference they make - obviously coupled with sensible driving! I have winter tyres on now, but could not really justify trying my luck yesterday - so the car is still on the driveway covered in snow!

Update - cleared snow off car but did not bother with driveway clearing - still 4-6" of snow. Last year I'd have got nowhere, this year the car had very little problem getting through, onto the hard packed snow in the road and down our cul de sac to the cleared main road. Coming home I was easily able to 3 point turn in the cul de sac and reverse into our driveway. Snow tyres do make a difference!!

 

[peanut]

every year there is a lot of crowing from some about driving their Porsche in ice and snow and there are a couple of comments I would like to make .

Firstly in the UK most of us get very little opportunity of driving in these conditions in the UK particularly in the South and South West. Secondly if you live in a hilly area as we do (Exmoor Quantocks etc) I don't care what you say, you ain't gonna get a Porsche up and down the hills in ice and snow without chains. Our village is 250 feet asl with a sharp drop all round of 230+ feet . These country roads are rarely gritted have no kerbs or paving and are frequently single lane width.

I have to ask why would anyone take their expensive pride and joy out in ice and snow if they don't need to ? Even if you don't hit something ,some idiot is bound to hit you sooner or later. !

 

[eddieedmo]

leave in garage , my Berlingo van with M & S tyres is ok , big heavy lump,front wheel drive , low revving.
Glad you are ok.

Nick []

 

[os951]

Well, conditions you described is every day issue here during the winter time. I usually have as a daily driver a Subaru Legacy 4wd, but prefer my good old E30 bodied BMW during winter. 4WD just kills the driving joy, good old rear wheel drive gives much more pleasure. You don't need any snow chains when you have a set of proper winter tires.
Actually snow & ice is not what kills cars, it's the salt which is usually used in the countries where people try to manage through the winter with summer tires.
Check out the secenery i have, my home street is covered with snow, no salt, no gravel on it. Nice for the kids to play street hockey. If you look close, there are a 951 & S2 cab projects in this picture []

 

[andy watson]

.....most MB's are pants in snow - big heavy engine at the front, no weight on the rear, auto transmission, electronics, RWD

As I found out in my CLK this morning trying to park at the station car park, mind you last couple of years in the S type Jag was no better!!
Lin didn't even bother with the Z4, this is when we miss having a 4x4

 

[vitesse]

Yes ,but we don't have reindeers here to helpout.[]

 

[os951]

The nearest reindeer is about 1000km north from my place []

 

[Dockrell]

Dear All,
When I went on a skid pan course many years ago (30+) the advice for a rear wheel skid was to depress the clutch and steer into the skid. It worked and I would recommend a skid pan course to anyone. It dramatically improved the driving of the frieds who also attended the course.

With regard to the 944's with even weight distribution they also have the mass distributed at the front (engine) and rear (geabox, etc).

This is just like a dumbell - difficult to start rotating but equally difficult to stop once it starts - straightforward Physics and momentum.

On snow and ice if the front starts sliding a quick dab of the brakes allows the front to start gripping and turn. A stationary tyre when turned will grip on snow and ice. At slow speed I have used this technique to turn corners safely (5 to 10 MPH). The ability to left foot brake does help in these situations.

Mike
White 2.7 automatic

 

[os951]

Here in Finland we have about ½ year slippery conditions. I can give some advice. When it is slippery, just drive a bit slower. Do not tailgate anybody. Remember i takes a far longer to stop you car than usual.
What comes to left foot braking; don't do it. Even though it was invented by Finnish rally drivers (Mini) like Timo Makinen & Rauno Aaltonen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gORYVUWlmCI
it's not wise to do it on the normal traffic. Most Finns do not use that method at all. I suppose most of us are right footed and because of that, you just don't have the same feel on your left foot as you do with your right one. So, with left foot braking in most cases you just press pedal with too big force. Then you most likely have already lost the game.....

 

[plenty]

I had almost exactly the same experience four winters ago - your words could have described what happened to me verbatim, down to the sweeping left-hander and ending up on a grassy verge just shy of a metal road sign. The only differences in my case were that I was travelling at about 25 mph, and I needed to be pushed out as the wheels were spinning on the icy grass.

What I learned is that you simply cannot drive a RWD vehicle with fat summer tyres in these conditions. Full stop. I am convinced that no amount of skill could have saved me in that instance - when you have no grip, you have no grip. When I got out of the car to survey the scene after my pirouette, I actually fell over as there was barely enough traction on the road surface to support standing up.

 

[Fat Albert]

ORIGINAL: andy watson

.....most MB's are pants in snow - big heavy engine at the front, no weight on the rear, auto transmission, electronics, RWD

As I found out in my CLK this morning trying to park at the station car park, mind you last couple of years in the S type Jag was no better!!
Lin didn't even bother with the Z4, this is when we miss having a 4x4

And the same for my Wife's 535D, took ages to get off the MiL's drive yesterday as the electronics would not let me do what I needed/wanted even with TCS switched off (allegedly)

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: os951

Here in Finland we have about ½ year slippery conditions. I can give some advice. When it is slippery, just drive a bit slower. Do not tailgate anybody. Remember i takes a far longer to stop you car than usual.

Tell me about it, went flying off down the road last year all smug in my Rangie came to a junction and barely managed to stop in time despite braking about double a normal easy distance. Its very noticeable this effect in a 4x4 as they have so much traction. I don't have snow tyres on her but the big soft M+S tyres do a decent job in winter.

It was total chaos here last year as most ppl drive in the snow very very rarely. I went into work one day and maybe 80% didn't turn up, of those that did most of them where others I knew with 4x4s.

 

[Super_Marv]

ORIGINAL: plenty
What I learned is that you simply cannot drive a RWD vehicle with fat summer tyres in these conditions. Full stop. I am convinced that no amount of skill could have saved me in that instance - when you have no grip, you have no grip. When I got out of the car to survey the scene after my pirouette, I actually fell over as there was barely enough traction on the road surface to support standing up.

I agree with that.

 

[George Elliott]

leave in garage , my Berlingo van with M & S tyres is ok , big heavy lump,front wheel drive , low revving.

The only vehicle to overtake me last year on 6 inches of snow []

Found the 944 OK in the snow, but do agree as the retailers say, "when its gone its gone" on ice.
On other surfaces adding power can help the wheels dig and find grip which the rear weight helps achieve.

There is a factor associated with a trailing throttle where engine braking causes a locking of the rear wheels, a lightly feathered throttle as the spin starts will help minimise the effect, but if you are already going too fast, it may not be an option.

Good to hear no harm done

George
944t