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Tommys86 said:
ok great so sounds like it's engine end rather than rear.. a new clutch... anyone recommend any other jobs to do 'whilst your there'? Thinking maybe flywheel replacement? Rear end oil seal? TT bearings?
Performance improvements - the clutch itself? For example is the turbo clutch compatible and perceived to add performance?
Long shot.... any weight reduction opportunities?
Tom



I thought the 944 turbo clutch / bellhousing was bigger than the 2.5 2.7 & 3.0 N/a ?

A Spec Aluminium Flywheel & Stage II Clutch works well in mine...
My stock fly was 7kg the Spec one is 2.7kg
wheels-1000614-1024x681.jpg


http://www.specclutches.com/605607/spec-stage2-pressure-plate-944-spc282-524964


wheels-576-Medium.jpg


R
 
Cater_Racer said:
Update. Got the car up in the air, found the inspection holes. The clutch bell housing is solidly bolted to the TT (so not Mark's issue) and thru the inspection hole I can see the flywheel and clutch rotating smoothly with the engine ticking over in Neutral. So seemingly nothing wrong there. However at the gearbox end I popped the inspection bung off, and the the TT is not rotating! (so not gearbox failure or diff). so switched engine off and put hand in thru said hole, and the TT rotates freely by hand, it feels smooth and very correct, only with the clutch out in neutral you'd expect it be connected directly to the crankshaft. It certainly is not! So it all points to a clutch spline failure.

Gerry,

That's great progress. It does indeed sound like there has been some failure between the clutch cover and the other end of the TT. Clutch splines failure would be the most likely explanation but I guess you (ahem, Tom) could have broken the centre out of the clutch plate or even snapped the TT somewhere along it's length (quite possible with the mighty power of an S2 engine, eh? Oh, it's not that sort of thread, sorry ...[:mad:] ) Whatever it is it's still a bit rum that it failed silently and there is no rattling or clattering noise after the failure.

Tom, 'while you are in there' I'd be fitting a new Rear Main Seal (I think there is a Volvo part that is much much cheaper than the Porsche one) and a clutch release bearing and possibly a spigot bearing in the end of the TT that pokes into the middle of the clutch (a very cheap industrial bearing, code 6202-2RSH SKF). There's not much opportunity for weight saving but the weight in question is all low down and between the axles so not as bad as it could be.

I have heard tell of the 968 bellhousing being designed differently such that a new clutch plate can be fitted much more easily, making any future job a much quicker affair. However you'd need to be convinced that you'll be doing the job a second time before this becomes worthwhile, and finding one may not be that easy.

For what it's worth, I did a short thread on the job when I changed the clutch on mine, here:

https://www.porscheclubgb...435928&high=clutch


Oli.

ETA: I think that the S2 and Turbo clutch are the same part now, although may not have been originally. Make sure that the new one has springs in the middle of it rather than a rubber centre, but the old rubber centre ones must be long used up by now.
 
zcacogp said:


Oli.
ETA: I think that the S2 and Turbo clutch are the same part now, although may not have been originally. Make sure that the new one has springs in the middle of it rather than a rubber centre, but the old rubber centre ones must be long used up by now.


I Can't find out what the difference is for sure (Different bellhousing comes up a lot) but SPEC list different part numbers for turbo / S2.
http://www.specclutch.com...orsche/944/1989/Single

R
 


I can only see the steel flywheel for the S2 as well - that's not going to offer much as the aluminium one?

I say that but what are the trade offs, did you notice much Roger?

Guessing lighter flywheel, faster spin (revs quicker), better engine response, generally* acceleration is improved - but what do you lose?

*Thinking hills climbs (Spa) grunt? acceleration is worse?
Engine braking ability?
Gear changing - engine speed drops off very quickly when shifting gears?
 
Tommys86 said:
I can only see the steel flywheel for the S2 as well - that's not going to offer much as the aluminium one?
I say that but what are the trade offs, did you notice much Roger?
Guessing lighter flywheel, faster spin (revs quicker), better engine response, generally* acceleration is improved - but what do you lose?
*Thinking hills climbs (Spa) grunt? acceleration is worse?
Engine braking ability?
Gear changing - engine speed drops off very quickly when shifting gears?



That's a shame if for whatever reason they don't list an Aluminium fly for the S2, I'll find out for you...

I went from a 1260kg car (2.5 140bhp) to a 1010kg car (2.7 205bhp) so as you can imagine even though there was a
3.5 year gap almost doubling the power to weight ratio from 100 to 200bhp per ton was to say the least rather substantial !

Just changing the fly will give anyone benefits for the road and especially for Racing, how much difference just for this one component is very difficult to say? there are downsides though (Mostly for road) which I'll come to in a sec..

If you are ever considering a full Engine rebuild, I'd seriously consider a knife edged crank this along with several other components is what's made a massive difference to the speed that the Engine's RPM rises.

Approx a total of 9kg of Spinning metal was the total reduction (3kg off the 951 Crank / 968 Rods / Wossner pistons / Aluminium flywheel and all balanced and blue printed)

The Upside is the engine's peak BHP is reached in a faster time, the downside is a reduction in Inertia.
If you take your foot off the gas at 100mph my car will decelerate and slow faster than
any other 2.5 or 3.0 944/968. This for a regular Sunday drive / road car could be a pain as you'd have to keep the power on longer
before lifting off for a Motorway slip road or a roundabout. Also hills as you mention will need more throttle, as the "Hamster" revolving in the cage is not as powerful as the original!

The upside is the smaller Hamster Spins up quicker (A bit like a smaller turbo does compared to a larger one) so lighter parts
that are spinning up in your engine will get to a given rpm in a faster time and hence if you did a back to back from point A to B
the lighter engines internals will provide quicker results (Less time), this is like saying your car will be 1 second faster by the time it reaches the end of a straight (on a circuit).

The quicker decrease in RPM also allows for quicker gear changes because the gears mesh better with a marked decrease in gear speed (A bit like heel and toeing) so you can ram the stick out from gear and into the next as fast as humanly possible and it goes it very quickly and the rpm's rise again much quicker than a standard crank weight.

There's only one thing for it, tell your dad to contact me and I'll let him sample my car (And you when your next in NW)
which with my recent Dog leg gearshifter makes the changes even more faster & easier.

The danger is I'm 99% sure after this he'll want the same! even though it's 291cc less and only has 8 valves and not 16 like
your S2 i think it will be / feel quicker. If only I could be arsed to take it off the road , cage and extinguish it etc..and get my ARDS done, I'd join you on the track...Now that would be a great comparison (Skinny body 2.7 8v 924 v 3.0 944 16v)
R






 
Its worth replacing (or rotating ) the shaft the clutch release fork fits to, it will have imprints from the roller bearings which makes the action notchy (new bearings too - though these might come as part of the kit - can't recall).
Tony
 
zcacogp said:
Clutch splines failure would be the most likely explanation but I guess you (ahem, Tom) could have broken the centre out of the clutch plate


Clutch separation would be my guess. In other news, don't take as fact everything that agenda driven keyboard warriors post on the internet...
 
yeah think the best port of call - once we've sorted house move - garage space..... etc etc is to start pulling it apart.

Not going to order any parts til I know what the damage is! Cashflow, time and space all improve towards the end of the year so most likely our first race was our last for 2017. But if we make some improvements along the way great!

Alternatively swap it out of the road car.... :ROFLMAO:
 

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