Snetterton Track eve place available

[Peter Empson]

That's really horrible to watch Paul (and not remotely slow at all). In fact I'm astonished there's not much more damage to the shell and glass having seen it, these really are amazingly strong cars.

I think a camera in these situations is a really good idea, being able to watch something like this (however unpleasent) and remind yourself that you did everything you could must be some small reassurance.

I think you were lucky it didn't roll when it hit the gravel trap, you can see it wanting to dig in. That gravel trap is pathetically small, not a great bit of design in my opinion given the speed possible there, it should surely start much earlier than it does.

I'm sorry to hear you may have to compromise to get a car back on the road, I'm assuming that you've considered Fen's car (although I guess that's rather more money than you'd want to go to right now - I just thought his suspension/brakes and engine management could make a great combination with your engine).

Anyway, you know you're more than welcome to join me at any trackday and share the driving till you get something back on the road.

Best regards,
Peter

 

[Hilux]

Jon

We`d all be interested in your findings as I`ve realised that I am depending upon (possibly) original rubbers in my brake system.

Never gave it a thought when I had the brake fluid changed to ATE recently. To have the rubbers done at the same time would have been good insurance for peanuts.[&o]

You`ll get your WM 400bhp hat one day. Things like that have curious benefits too as you appreciate life and family that bit more, good luck and keep us posted.

 

[sawood12]

ORIGINAL: Peter Empson

Track days are each for their own, if someone hits you it's your problem, even if they were insured they would not pay out for damage to the other persons car. I don't use insurance but am starting to rethink this after recent events.

The trackday insurance cover i've got through AON covers you if you stuff it into the wall and if you hit someone or if someone hits you. It doesn't cover you for mechanical breakdowns like blowing an engine. It doesn have a £1500 excess though. And I don't qualify for it until I do an 'approved' trackday.

 

[sawood12]

Just watced it. It was like one of those horror movies when you know something bad is going to happen, it's just a case of when. I must say from the lack of profanaties you were very composed and calm. I think my language would have been more filty than that of the love child of Chubby Brown and Bernard Manning. With all that torque and power there isno need to lighten it. That engine could drag the moon around any race track.

 

[paulf968]

ouch, ouch and ouch again!! I echo Peter's comments above - the fact that you could do nothing more than sit and wait is so chilling.

has Jon bled the brakes at all to ? Although I bleed mine every couple of trackdays I find that on one or two nipples I get what I would describe as a 'surprising amount of air' - does anyone know why this might occur? (no comments about the pitfalls of high fibre diets !!)


paul f

 

[333pg333]

Really sorry to see that Paul. It's such a shame after your long wait to get Lil back on the road.[] Obviously it's great that you weren't seriously hurt but I bet it took the wind out of you for a short while. I know what it's like to have the pedal go through the floor like Fred Flintstone and it's no fun at all. I wonder what would have happened if you had spun it and backed into the wall? I guess there's no telling what would happen once you get the car spinnnig though.
If you do decide to go fibreglass panels there is a company that does better finish than GT in the US. I can't post links on this site so if you need any info just email me. They don't seem too expensive and your pound fares very well against the US dollar let alone our poor Aussie one. That scares me for my upcoming visit to England. Ouch!
So you guys can get track day insurance? Wow! Wish that were the case here but if they did it would be like $500 per day with a $5k excess or something like that.

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: legaleagleboy

has Jon bled the brakes at all to ? Although I bleed mine every couple of trackdays I find that on one or two nipples I get what I would describe as a 'surprising amount of air' - does anyone know why this might occur? ......

I would assume it is due to localised boiling of the fluid.

The fluid will boil in the calliper 'cos that's where the heat is generated. Subject to the location of the calliper, the shape of the pipe work etc. air will either form a pocket in the calliper or migrate down the pipe work. Just because a lot of air doesn't come out initially doesn't mean it isn't there; it could be stuck in the pipe further down the system.

A few years ago there seemed to be a run of fluid coolers and circulators to "reduce fluid temperature". Another product from the stable of chocolate fire guards IMHO, perhaps borne out by their subsequent disappearance from the go faster catalogues.

 

[Guest]

Paul, I feel your pain my friend. At least it physically it is only cuts and bruises. LIL saved you there
That was not nice. One thing I would say is how did you hold off the expletives? Shock?
Another point is the run offs at Snetterton are not really very well thought out, was that a single tyre wall? Hence why they struggle with international meetings
In fact most of the UK tracks need to take a look at run offs. Brands Hatch is appalling at the end of the pit straight too.
That is the reason they lost the British GP years ago when the Foulstons (the then track owners) refused to bow to pressure from the FIA on run offs.
On the other side motor racing is dangerous, we all know that and incidents like this are a reminder
There is a shell for sale on evilbay at the moment, may be the way forward

All the best
Tom

 

[Peter Empson]

Sorry for dragging it up again, but this has been bugging me. Out of curiousity, would it be possible that the brake failure could have been related to a problem with the ABS system?

As ABS releases braking pressure as it senses a lock up, I'm curious to know if it's only able to release a small percentage of force (leaving some braking) or whether it can come completely off the brakes?

If the latter was the case then is it possible that it could cause this kind of brake failure (I'm thinking along the lines of an intermittent failure of the ABS brain)?

Best regards,
Peter

 

[Hilux]

I `think` that as the abs is only a line pressure and fluid distribution valve it should therefore default to `shut` or `safe` if it fails probably with slightly reduced pressure and higher pedal pressure required but certainly enough to brake.

 

[ukporker]

Paul - I was really sorry to see your car return to the paddock on the back of the breakdown truck - I am pleased to hear that you might get away with new panels and not have to use a new shell - it did look on the night that you may have been lucky as the roof, bonnet and rear hatch were OK.
I did a bit of rough timing before you had your mishap and you were lapping at around 1:26 ish - a bit unsicentific as I only had an ordinary watch. Is that lap time about what you would expect ?
Has Jon come to a conclusion re repair or reshell yet?

Richard

 

[944Turbo]

was discussing ths the other day with someone i work with he mentioned that he has heard of a shaped seal 'flopping' the wrong way - \_____/ becoming /------- this then returned. If the master cylinder seal is of that design it might explain where the brakes went and returned to.
Could expanding hot fluid cause a weak seal to invert?
Tony

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: ukporker

I did a bit of rough timing before you had your mishap and you were lapping at around 1:26 ish

Tssk, tssk, naughty, naughty []

I had a look at the 10 laps that I did before the crunch and the best was a 1:25 with the others being mostly 1:26 and a 1:27. Also had a quick look at the footage from two years ago and the three laps that I had saved were 1:27 and 1:28.

I spoke to Jon yesterday and LIL is repairable [] They are getting the cost together for me now which I should know in the next few days but it may well be prohibitively expensive (I'm skint in the car budget dept []). The budget solution will be to move the minimum needed over to a perfectly good shell that Jon already has which will yield a stripped out lightweight car with a half roll cage and a BRAND NEW brake system all round [] The surplus luxury goodies from LIL can then be moved on to offset the cost

I don't really want a single purpose track car as I love the 944s all round capabilities, but needs must.......

 

[333pg333]

You're on the precipice there Paul. Looking right over the edge at the point of no return. This is a decision that many of us will face at one time or another of turning our much loved road cars into dedicated track rats. May your choice be unclouded and what you ultimately want, not something you feel forced into.
Best wishes.

 

[Hilux]

The budget solution will be to move the minimum needed over to a perfectly good shell that Jon already has which will yield a stripped out lightweight car with a half roll cage and a BRAND NEW brake system all round [] The surplus luxury goodies from LIL can then be moved on to offset the cost

I don't really want a single purpose track car as I love the 944s all round capabilities, but needs must.......

Hi Paul, sorry to hear of your continuing woes however in one small sense I envy you the issue.

I bought mine to turn into a track based car but cannot bring myself to throw away what is a rather nice car as I didnt pay too much for it. At least you have to make a choice.........................

my view.....................

............................go for it, it will be a truly awesome machine and I bagsy the first passenger ride with it [8D]

Whatever happens you are ok so thats what really matters.

 

[dlknight]

Hey Paul,

I echo 333pg333's message, the crash looked very nasty indeed and at some speed. Chilling to watch, its amazing you didn't get anymore injuries than you did ! [:-]

So was there any mention of GT2/3 calipers on the new shell ? []

Dave K.

 

[sawood12]

Paul,
Any more insight into what caused the brake failure in the first place? Was it a part failure or boiled brake fluid?