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So, What do YOU Think

Melv

Melv

PCGB Member
Member
Just had these queries from a potential 964RS owner, looking to primarily use it for track days (yippee!)

* Should I be looking for an 'unadulterated' car?
* How much should I be expecting to pay?
* How difficult is it to buy one from Germany / Europe?
* Where would you suggest I look for one?
* Are there any mods that significantly improve the car / increase its
value?
* Are there any mods that make little difference / decrease its value?
* Other than accident damaged cars, what else should I steer clear of?
* Is there any sensible reason not to go for a LHD - other than having
the steering wheel on the right side?
* Is there any sensible reason to go for a RHD - other than having the
steering wheel on the right side?
* My nearest Porsche specialist is JZ Machtech. Are they any good
with 964RS cars? Is there anyone else you'd recommend? I'd want to get any
car I was interested in checked out. Who would you recommend?
* Is it best to plan on trailering them to events?
* Who else would you suggest I contact for advice?
 
ok i'll give it a go!!
1.imho you don't really want to buy a concours queen as chances are when you track it regularly it won't stay concours for long and you will likely lose the premium you paid for such a car. something you will have to decide for yourself is wether you wish to pay more for an accident free car or not. remember that if you do prang it, bang goes the premium you paid. On the other hand keep it on the black stuff and it will keep it's value, but it's sort of russian rulette.
2. a general rule of thumb these days seems to be 25k to 35k depending on condition, history etc. to get something you will be happy owning something between 28-33k is a ball park figure. You can be lucky and find a good car for less or you could fall in love with something for more especially if you go rhd or clubsport.
3 buying from Germany /europe can be tricky but far less so if you use a broker. At some point you will come across Hermanns & Schmitt and Thomas Schmitt . He proabably will know of most good cars to be had in Germany and most of europe too. Bear in mind though that we have a very good stock of cars here at the moment with the exchange rate being against buying in europe. Good cars are becoming thin on the ground out there too.
4. Try Porsche post for starters and the other Porsche mags. There are a number of good knowledgeable dealers out there too. GT Calasics, Gmund cars, MCP motorsport to name but a few. Paul at GT classics also has a good relationship with Thomas in Germany.
5. Start by making sure the basics are all working before worrying about mods. So a car with new brakes, suspensions and tyres and clutch for instance would definately make a good buy. The more expensive mods such as motec engine management or a heavly reworked engine might carry a small premium or help load a more average car in other respects car. Bear in mind that motec starts at around 3k a car with it fitted imho is slightly more desirable to would be purchasers.
6. Can't think of anything hugely undesirable other than unsighly body conversions and kits. Though replacing the mag wheels is considered to devalue the car if you don't happen to keep hold of them.
7. Get the car properly inspected and steer clear of anything wanting significant work. Unless of course you like the challenge!!!!! Accident damaged cars should not necessarily put you off there are now very few RS that have not had some damage at some time. So long as the repairs have been done to a good standard and the car checks out fine inspection wise you should not discount such a car.
8 LHD is the way to go[;)][:)]
9. rhd slightly more expensive and has power steering pay yer money and etc.
10. having been to JZ Machtech a couple of times on 964RS open days I can vouch for their knowledge and professionalism. Many owners use them. My other personal recommendation would be Parr if you are south of the river. Further up north is the fountain of knowledge known as the ninemeister all of these guys know there 964RS. All would be happy to offer inspection services i'm sure.
11. I have never trailered mine. And go to Spa and the ring and take it on long touring holidays too. Most owners I know drive them to events. The exception to this is the clubsport and cup cars which can be tiring on long drives with no sound proofing. Still people still drive them too
12. Most of the specialsts mentioned are worth talking to. Also get hold of the copy of 911 &PW with the buyers guide in it. it's very comprehensive and accurate.
right i'm off for a lay down
 
Think you've covered everything Laurence - would certainly recommend talking to Colin at Ninemeister. Also have just posted a list of magazine articles that may be of help.

Tony
 
I agree with most coments above except for the comment about LHD against RHD. It depends what you want the car for. If it is track only, LHD is the way to go. For mixed use including road and if at all regular, RHD is the way to go. I have owned RHD and LHD cars (but only RHD RS) and LHD in everyday use is OK until the novilty wears off (1-2 months!!) and then it is a pain! However, there is a £7-10K premium for RHD.

As far as what mods effect value, there are 2 issues, namely today's value and future value. It seems that modified engines don't currently increase value (same with most makes of car) but I would predict that as the cars become more and more a collectors car, heavily modified engines could start harming the value. IMO, any power mod that is reversable is OK but as soon as it involves stripping the engine at all, it will effect long term value. Hotter cams, bigger capacity etc will be less desirable as the cars become more valuable. I think that a MOTEC will be OK because it is easy to remove and put back to standard.

Buy from a specialist with a reputation to protect. Although I haven't bought a car from him, Paul at GT Classics is a person I have a lot of confidence in and he always has a good range of cars.

Although not really covered in the questions, don't buy the first car you see. Look at a fewo you can compare what you are getting for the money. It took me about 4 months to find the right car.
 
Agreed RHD is best for everyday use. But there will be precious few 964RS being used in that way(you'd have to be bonkers). For everything else there is LHD, including nice long trips to spa, the ring, Le mans etc where RHD is a pain. As i said you pays your money and takes your choice. RHD is mind you considerably rarer, so from an investment point of view may be a better bet.
 
My 2p worth (trying to avoid repeating what is written above)

* Should I be looking for an 'unadulterated' car? not necessary for track use, just pay accordingly
* How much should I be expecting to pay? 28-32 for LHD, 34 - 38 for RHD offers lots of choice
* How difficult is it to buy one from Germany / Europe? why bother when there is plenty to chose from here - unless you see something nice @ H&S
* Where would you suggest I look for one? Porsche Post, club register, the web!!
* Are there any mods that significantly improve the car / increase its
value? for track use trick tyres, pagids, roll cage, harnesses and instruction are useful. Several options for more power ranging from remaps to Motec + 1 and 3.8 conversions. i think original cars retain their value best unless you find someone wants a modified car for track days, some very extensively modified cars have recently struggled to sell as quickly as a good original car
* Are there any mods that make little difference / decrease its value? white clip on headlamp covers on both counts, non std cosmetic mods aren't for everyone
* Other than accident damaged cars, what else should I steer clear of? nothing wrong with accident damaged cars if repaired well and priced accordingly, scruffy/tired cars that will cost a lot to put right
* Is there any sensible reason not to go for a LHD - other than having
the steering wheel on the right side? not really, especially for track use unless you use car parks or toll roads frequently
* Is there any sensible reason to go for a RHD - other than having the
steering wheel on the right side? power steering if you are a wimp/geriatric
* My nearest Porsche specialist is JZ Machtech. Are they any good
with 964RS cars? Is there anyone else you'd recommend? I'd want to get any
car I was interested in checked out. Who would you recommend? As suggetsed above + Jaz in Wembley and GT1 in Chertsy. Build a good relationship with a local garage who will look after you
* Is it best to plan on trailering them to events? good idea if you have space/trailer as you can always get hom in comfort and carry some spares, but not necessary as driving there can be half the fun.
* Who else would you suggest I contact for advice? read the press articles/buyers guides, go to a few track days or club events and ask the owners (they love talking about their cars) and will probably knbow of every car for sale in the UK at this time

Usual answers/suspects I guess.
 
ORIGINAL: Laurence Gibbs

Agreed RHD is best for everyday use. But there will be precious few 964RS being used in that way(you'd have to be bonkers).
Click to expand...
Call me bonkers then [:D] Well, I might not use it as a truely everyday car because I use the company Smart in London and wouldn't take the RS into London because it isn't fun in traffic. However, for non London driving, of which I do 8000 miles a year, the RS it is. And its a better car to drive than an Evo, than a Integra Type R, or many other so called "everyday" cars.
 
"Thanks very much for the comprehensive responses. Please thank the
contributors. I hope to be able to join you all on track days in a 964RS
before too long.

Best Regards
Tim Barber"

Keep 'em coming chaps!
 
ORIGINAL: SimonExtreme

I agree with most coments above except for the comment about LHD against RHD. It depends what you want the car for. If it is track only, LHD is the way to go. For mixed use including road and if at all regular, RHD is the way to go. I have owned RHD and LHD cars (but only RHD RS) and LHD in everyday use is OK until the novilty wears off (1-2 months!!) and then it is a pain! However, there is a £7-10K premium for RHD.
Click to expand...

NOT TRUE SIMON........! Of my NINE 911's owned only 2 have been RHD they have all driven perfectly without drama on the UK roads, the 964RS in particular is a better set-up authentic factory car in LHD, prices are narrowing as the buyers are more aware knowledgeable as well as Pan-European Global market demand.....don't consider myself a top driver but can certainly say driving a LHD round the UK has never been a problem, indeed my everyday runabout is a LHD Smart Pulse 61BHP.....BUY A LHD 964RS young man and enjoy it....don't get me wrong a good RHD 964RS is worth buying but DON'T PAY TOO MUCH OF A PREMIUM FOR THE WHEEL ON THE WRONG SIDE! Max £5K for the comparable car......
 
Des

Each person is entitled to their opinion but having driven LHD cars in the UK as an everyday car, they are a real pain. For instance, Almost every time I drive my cars I use a swipe card for access. On many days I end up needing to speak into an entry phone system and as for car parks, unless they are pay and display you are stuffed. I also drive a Smart Pulse in London and as you can reach out of the passenger window from the drivers seat, LHD doesn't make a difference. It does in the Porsche. Try leaning across, winding down the window and then swiping a card or inserting a parking ticket in a Porsche. Rather a different exp[erience from the Smart.

20 years ago when i got my first LHD car (TR250 reimported from the US) the above things weren't issues but today they are.

As for the "authentic" experience of the LHD car, again I would say that's a load of.................myth. While the LHD car has a marginally better drivers position the RHD car has nothing wrong with the driving position and it certainly doesn't effect commfort or ability to drive the car properly. The power steering on the RHD car is also very good with excellent feedback through the wheel and its very well weighted. I certainly wouldn't want to drive a car on the road on a regular basis without it. I personally believe that there is a lot of macho rubish talked about non power steering and many modern race cars have it.

I am not sure that prices are narrowing as the premium for RHD seems to have remained the same for the last year. However, this is the very reason why if I were buying a track car I would save the money and buy a LHD car. The RHD car has no benefits on the track although I also say it has no disadvantage either.
 
Lighten up chasps.

What Des failed to mention, and Simon hit it on the nail, that the lack of power steering IS a macho thing.

Driving LHD RS's is the only form of exercise that most RS driver's get, apart from lifting pints that is, so that is why we shun the power steering of the right hookers.[;)]

Anyway, what's wrong with reversing into or out of a car park?
 
Agree Simon with the toll booth and car park ticket vending machine scenario in a LHD 911, but what a small price to pay! Step into Europe and 964RS Paradise, Nurburgring, Spa, Le Mans, those Twisty froggy roads, Autobahns.....wow...we live in a too regulated gestapo khazi.....let's join the liberated Europeans....they know how to have fun....sorry digressing a bit Simon...take your point but still feel LHD is not a problem in UK nice quirk...suppose it's very personal...and I did'nt even mention power streering, and those funny pedals stuck together in that ill fitting footwell, lucky my RHD 993 is a tiptronic otherwise where would that clutch pedal go? See you at Brands Simon.......
 
I'm with you just about all the way Desmond..... has to be said to buy an RS and use it regularly in and around toll booths is quite unusual.

I went out of my way to buy LHD. Having owned many many 911's I found the car fits me sooooo much better that way. Mainly pedal placement....But I've a few LHD cars and I prefer to sit that side (Kerb crawling and all).[;)]
Recent trip to LeMans confirmed to me that I definitely made the right choice.

And there's nothing like the RHD premium you detail Simon!!!!
Lee

 
Sorry, Lee, but I have to disagree with you on the premium. Paul, where are you when we need you!!

I haven't seen a RHD car for sale at less than £38K for some time and Paul has a nice example at £40K. I would expect to pick up a LHD car for £32K and if you are patient, there are cars at £30K that come on the market.

I also cannot understand people who are so against using an RS as an everyday car (except in London). I think that modern cars have made people soft. However, I would rather take the RS on a long journey than our BMW because the seat is more comfortable and the only downside is the noise. There are people using far less practical cars as everyday transport without getting all the negative stuff.

I think the difference between me and many others is that I get to smile more often. It doesn't matter how much I drive the RS, I still get left with a smile on my face and it is the first car for many years that I haven't got bored with after a year. I just wish I could drive it more often and that I had time to get it on a track.
 
Simon....I certainly would not disagree with you as far as drivability.....You so often read on this here forum about ALL the RS shortcomings and why you cant drive one any distance. I merely mention it as an unusual requirement for an RS these days for such an old sausage.

No matter how long I sit in the driving seat I never feel uncomfortable yet I get in the M3 with it's infinitely adjustable electric seats and I get back ache after 5 mins....and I kid you not.

Top end RHD may be £40k but top end LHD is easily £35k like for like and as they become scarcer overseas the Germans are coming back for them.

Des where are you?
 
Simon i'm sure the RS is fine for everyday use in the summer (what we have of it) but the thought of using one for regular transport in the winter would not fill me with glee. forgeting the grip levels availiable(or not availiable[:D]), using a car with no underbody sealant and mag wheels in snow and salt is not my idea of fun. Each to his own though.
 
Melv,

Love the reversing tip for LHD :O) Will try that on the Forth Road bridge. Anyone know how to do a half donut?

I guess lots of revs and full lock to get the front back round?
 
Surely, people must prefer LHD RSs.
Isn't the RHD version of the car an after-thought?
Really... power steering, strangely offset pedals...
Isn't the agreed hierarchy:
1. LHD RS
3. RHD RS and RS America? [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D]
 
Charles, doesn't a LHD 964 RS driven backwards on the Forth Road Bridge go like a RHD 968 Clubsport? [:D]
 
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