Some mistake surely ? ! ?

[YvesD]

Enquired today about potential trade in value for my C2S in one years time for a turbo.

OPC's opinion based on similar spec ( nice ) and mileage ( 8000 projected ) for current 2yr old cars, wait for it

£47k !

Thats £30k depreciation in two years, surely not ?

Opinions anyone ?

Yves

 

[CHewlett]

Not sure whether this help but earlier this month I part exchanged my 12 month old 997 C2S manual (good spec) around 5K miles for a new 997 Turbo Tip and got 61K - same dealer for all deals.

Kind regards
Christopher

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: YvesD

Enquired today about potential trade in value for my C2S in one years time for a turbo.

OPC's opinion based on similar spec ( nice ) and mileage ( 8000 projected ) for current 2yr old cars, wait for it

£47k !

Thats £30k depreciation in two years, surely not ?

Opinions anyone ?

Yves

That's scary! I made a similar enquiry yesterday with my OPC, they are getting back to me.

I previously heard rumours that it was either a depreciation of 1000 pounds per month or 1000 miles which ever is greater. I am waiting to see how accurate this is.

Turbo waiting list is apparently 2 years from now so I assume you'd have to be without your C2S or Turbo for up to a year whilst you wait.

 

[YvesD]

Alex,

I would have expected 10-15k over the period for such alow mileage example but that seems to have little baring on it.

You might be surprised on lead in times, my OPC is quoting 12-14 months on orders placed now.

Depreciation on the current motor will decide the issue for me Im afraid, too much money to throw away.

Yves

 

[Geoff_Fields]

ORIGINAL: YvesD

Enquired today about potential trade in value for my C2S in one years time for a turbo.

OPC's opinion based on similar spec ( nice ) and mileage ( 8000 projected ) for current 2yr old cars, wait for it

£47k !

Thats £30k depreciation in two years, surely not ?

Opinions anyone ?

Yves

Yeh, then they will have it on their forecourt for £57k, Thanks but NO THANKS!

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: YvesD

Alex,

I would have expected 10-15k over the period for such alow mileage example but that seems to have little baring on it.

You might be surprised on lead in times, my OPC is quoting 12-14 months on orders placed now.

Depreciation on the current motor will decide the issue for me Im afraid, too much money to throw away.

Yves

Yes, I'm in exactly the same position.

If going from my C2S Cab (which i love) to a new Turbo means a 30k loss in depreciation and an extra 30k down for the upgrade then there's no way I can justify that.

The Turbo is great, but not THAT much greater than my current car!!

 

[mbrands]

I took delivery of my 997 Carrera S in March 05 and sold it back to an OPC in May 06 with 7k miles. List price was about £75k and I received £61k back for it. It needed about £1k spent on it for minor cosmetic repairs and was subsequently advertised at at £69,500. I don't know whether they achieved that price, but I saw it back on the road about 3 weeks after I'd sold it.

So about £1k a month in depreciation sounds about right during the first year. I suppose it levels off a bit during the second year, but there will also be more cars around by then.

 

[YvesD]

If going from my C2S Cab (which i love) to a new Turbo means a 30k loss in depreciation and an extra 30k down for the upgrade then there's no way I can justify that.

The Turbo is great, but not THAT much greater than my current car!!

So right, and then of course we lose another £30-40k on the turbo after a year or two and before you know it you have thrown £100 grand away !

Think I will cherish the C2S, pop the sports shifter on it and maybe a Tubi, lots of Zymol and learn to drive it properly so as I dont need another 140bhp to make swift(er) progress.

Yves

 

[oliver]

Depreciation is the 'black hole' into which an estimated £50,000,000,000 mysteriously disappears each year. It's the true cost of buying new prestige cars.

Best to choose and spec carefully, keep long term, and enjoy.

And, to hedge your bets, buy a real classic if you want to protect your investment. Nothing's guaranteed, and an economic downturn could hurt everything, but the values of the most desirable classic Porsches have rewarded their owners.

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: YvesD

Think I will cherish the C2S, pop the sports shifter on it and maybe a Tubi, lots of Zymol and learn to drive it properly so as I dont need another 140bhp to make swift(er) progress.

Yves

Think I'm with you on this for now. Plus looks like a 7 speed DSG gearbox (PDK) may be a 'must have' on a new Turbo in the next year. So would be worth holding out for this anyway, otherwise a Tiptronic TT may depreciate like a stone as soon as PDK comes along.

From Autoweek:

Porsche has filed paperwork indicating that a seven-speed DSG is on the way. The company had apparently hoped to have it ready for the launch of the 997 Turbo, but it didn't work out. Hence, Tiptronic S remains the optional transmission across the board for the coming model year. When the DSG arrives, expect to see it made available on the full line, including the planned Bugatti-hunting GT1.

 

[YvesD]

Bugatti hunting GT1, now that sounds interesting........

No, no, no, I want to spend less money not more !

As I said on another thread, you just cant keep up with the pace of change so 'if you cant be with the one you love, love the one your'e with'.

Who sang that by the way ?

Yves

 

[oliver]

ORIGINAL: Alex L

ORIGINAL: YvesD

Think I will cherish the C2S, pop the sports shifter on it and maybe a Tubi, lots of Zymol and learn to drive it properly so as I dont need another 140bhp to make swift(er) progress.

Yves

Think I'm with you on this for now. Plus looks like a 7 speed DSG gearbox (PDK) may be a 'must have' on a new Turbo in the next year. So would be worth holding out for this anyway, otherwise a Tiptronic TT may depreciate like a stone as soon as PDK comes along.



Alex,

I'm told DSG is two years away. It is still not ready for production.

However, Tiptronc is likely to continue for some time after DSG is introduced. Several reasons:
- DSG is actually expected to attract many customers who have traditionally chosen manual gearboxes.
- Porsche has broadedned its market and, for some models (notably the 997TT), is attracting an older customer from Jaguar, Bentley, Mercedes etc, who are still likely to prefer a conventional auto.
- Tiptronic is particularly popular in the US

 

[Alex L]

Surely though, if Porsche has spent a load of money developing PDK technology then they will release it throughout the range ASAP (rumours of C4 first then TT, then others) so they can start getting their investment money back? They were supposed to have it ready for the TT release so they can't be too far off now in putting it into Production.

I know that the VW group recently announced its intention to replace all it's automatics with DSG. So the trend is certainly in that direction, especially given Porsches share stakes in VW.

My guess would be MY08 cars will have PDK, so anything made after Aug 07.

 

[Julio Geordio]

Spot on - I agree entirely.

What's PDK/DSG by the way - a clutchless manual?

 

[Michael Downing]

ORIGINAL: Alex L
I know that the VW group recently announced its intention to replace all it's automatics with DSG. So the trend is certainly in that direction, especially given Porsches share stakes in VW.

Whereas a BMW dealer told me that they expected all manual gearboxes to be replaced with SMG ..... heaven forbid! []

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: Julio Geordio

Spot on - I agree entirely.

What's PDK/DSG by the way - a clutchless manual?

VW / Audi's technical description of DSG, from which you will note that the shift speed is 3 to 4 hundredths of a second. Or 30 - 40 milliseconds. Twice as fast as the fastest SMG change speed. And it's much, much smoother, particularly at full chat....

"Transmission: DSG (Direct Shift Gearbox)
DSG is a manual gearbox in which the gearshifts are controlled electronically. What makes the DSG unique is that it has 2 separate gear sets operated by 2 wet multi-plate clutches (1st, 3rd, 5th on one gear set, plus 2nd, 4th, 6th on the other).
The benefit of 2 gear sets and 2 multi-plate wet clutches is that one gear set and clutch is engaged driving the vehicle with the second clutch having already pre-selected the next gear awaiting for power to be transferred.
As the next gear has already been preselected prior to power being applied, the gear change only takes 3 to 4 hundredths of a second. There is virtually no interruption to power, traction or acceleration".

A bit more info:

"The revolutionary direct shift gearbox (DSG) combines the advantages of a conventional six-speed manual-shift gearbox with the qualities possessed by a modern automatic transmission. The driver enjoys immense agility and driving pleasure with, at the same time, smooth, dynamic acceleration with no interruption to the power flow.
The technical basis of the direct shift gearbox (DSG) is a double clutch. This consists of two wet plate-type clutches with hydraulically regulated contact pressure. One of the two clutches engages the odd-numbered, the other the even-numbered gears. This principle enables gear shifts to be made without interrupting the power flow and keeps the shift times extremely short. While the first clutch is transmitting the power, the second clutch is ready to engage the next gear, which is preselected. When the driver makes the gear shift, the first clutch is released and the second engages, so that the gear shift takes place in a fraction of a second.
The driver can operate the DSG manually or allow changes to take place automatically. In the automatic mode there is a choice between the well-balanced, comfortable standard shift settings and a program with greater sports emphasis. Manual shifts are made either at the gear lever or at shift paddles behind the steering wheel".

 

[YvesD]

How does it know which gear you want next ?

Can you go from 3rd to 6th for example ?

 

[bobfair]

Would enyone like to speculate what Porsche will be charging for the DSG box?

The dilema I have is do I go ahead and take a build slot for a 997TT for the end of this year (Manual) or do I hang on to see if the DSG comes in for MY 08? Will the DSG box hit the resale of manual cars? Will the last manuals become classics? Problems problems!!

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: YvesD

How does it know which gear you want next ?

Can you go from 3rd to 6th for example ?

By magic! [8D]

No, it goes through the gears sequentially I believe and guesses what gear you will want next. I have heard some Audi/VW owners complaining that when DSG is in manual mode it is slow to change down gears (when it's not expecting it like when you aren't decelerating). Personally when I drove a TT with DSG I didn't see this issue. I believe the Porsche 997 GT3 Cup car has a PDK type gearbox currently.

I expect a DSG gearbox would make the 0-60mph time of the new TT around 3.5 secs. So I expect it to be marked up in price massively by Porsche as everyone will want one! My guess is that it will be double cost what the Tiptronic currently adds to the spec, but that's pure speculation"¦

 

[Julio Geordio]

Thanks Alex, very interesting. Whilst I can see their upside (mainly eating a sandwich whilst driving) I'm personally not a fan of auto boxes and tiptronics but this sounds more appealing.