Some More Gen2 Turbo Rumours

[okellyt]

Dear All

Spies have been out again and confirmed a couple of rumors ref next gen 997 Turbo.

Allegedly its definitely a DFI unit, PDK will be available, Power will be approx 505bhp-ish (maybe slightly higher).

And apparently there is one big surprise that is fully under wraps and any one in the know has to shoot themselves if they divulge it.

Pure Rumor - they might be responding to customer feedback and be producing a sports exhaust for the turbo

It would appear PGMBH have been stung into action by recent encroaches by other manufactures, in particular the Nissan thing so are allegedly pulling out the stops to make the next gen Turbo something special. The phrase I keep getting from my spies is "a lot more than just a face lift"

So clearly the propaganda department are working well and releasing tantalizing bits of info to get our interest up to fever pitch come the Autumn/Winter launch.

I can't wait to see what actually turns up.

All I need now are a few new clients or a grossly overpaid job somewhere else so I can save the pennies for one[]

 

[Sunil]

Sounds good so thanks for that. It's about time. Although a very competent car, Gen1 was such a disappointment for me but, if they get it right on Gen2, I might consider it once more.

In fact, it really does sound very exciting but I need to keep my expectations under control just in case Porsche fail to deliver once again. [&:]

 

[bobfair]

I was told by my OPC that a paddle shift would definately be available as an option for PDK. Perhaps Porsche are realising when the going is tough enthusiasts will still buy cars when the fashion conscious consumer does not so they need to listen to us.

It would not surprise me if the new Turbo was great because I bought a Gen 1 Turbo and spent the first few months wishing I had bought a GT3. Now I am buying a Gen 2 GT3 will I wish I had bought a Turrbo? The big issue for me is will the DFI motor be as good or as robust as the GT1 block? I doubt it will have the same tuning potential.

In defence of the Turbo having lived with it for 30 months I think it is a great car and I have grown to like it and I will miss it when it goes. It can be a lamb or a tiger depending on your mood and regardless of whether you press go or stop it inspires great confidence. It needs a sports exhaust and Alex has shown what can be done with the car but even if you keep it standard the perfomance is epic and very usable

 

[Lancerlot]

ORIGINAL: Sunil
Although a very competent car, Gen1 was such a disappointment for me but, if they get it right on Gen2, I might consider it once more.

What was wrong with it? [8|]
997 turbo is a great car! []

ORIGINAL:Bobfair
I was told by my OPC that a paddle shift would definately be available as an option for PDK

Gets more like a Fezza with every passing day! []

Regards,

Clive

 

[YvesD]

And apparently there is one big surprise that is fully under wraps and any one in the know has to shoot themselves if they divulge it.

Hybrid power ?

 

[garyw]

ORIGINAL: Sunil
Gen1 was such a disappointment for me but, if they get it right on Gen2, I might consider it once more.

x2, what exactly do you find the problem to be ?
I am and still am chuffed to bits with the car, I'd like more sound from the exhaust but the car has never really left me wanting for much..
I and others are happy to listen to other peoples opinions but to just slate the car and not back up the comments..!

garyw

 

[okellyt]

DFi is a necessary step forward to meet emissions/fuel efficiency regulations and customers desire for more performance. In theory it should be a more tune-able engine, I wait to see how reliable it is and if it/or a relative to it starts to get used in motor sport.

Two other changes - rumor has it we'll be able to delete that stupid lap timer on the middle of the dash if we pick sports chrono, secondly a new rear spoiler

 

[yan]

Maybe the surpise will be a price drop in recognition that the DFI engine is a not of the same value as the current one.[] If I am not mistaken the face-lift GT3 was widely expected to get DFI - what happened there?

The updates are certainly going to have to be more than a bit more power with PDK I think to entice me if 998 (991?) is just around the corner. I was sceptical about the 996 to 997 upgrade until a full-blown test drive however...

re. exhaust - whilst I was rather disappointed with the exhaust at new I have found that the sound is maturing quite well.

 

[Sunil]

ORIGINAL: garyw

ORIGINAL: Sunil
Gen1 was such a disappointment for me but, if they get it right on Gen2, I might consider it once more.

x2, what exactly do you find the problem to be ?
I am and still am chuffed to bits with the car, I'd like more sound from the exhaust but the car has never really left me wanting for much..
I and others are happy to listen to other peoples opinions but to just slate the car and not back up the comments..!

garyw

I believe that I explained my disappointment to your satisfaction many moons ago. Judging by the thread, I'm not alone with my thoughts:
http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=274916&mpage=1&key=&#274923

ORIGINAL: okellyt
It would appear PGMBH have been stung into action by recent encroaches by other manufactures, in particular the Nissan thing so are allegedly pulling out the stops to make the next gen Turbo something special. The phrase I keep getting from my spies is "a lot more than just a face lift"

I think the above says it all.

Suffice to say, I'm taking delivery of a second generation GT3 in September but eagerly await a next gen Turbo that is something special and a lot more than just a facelifted Gen1 TT. In my opinion, that's exactly what the car needs and, if the above is accurate, it would appear that Porsche share that sentiment. I'm looking forward to it because if it is special, make no mistake, I'll be beating people off with a stick to be at the front of the queue. []

 

[hdoherty]

Gary
Have to agree with you on this, its a super car. would certainly like more exhaust noise. Considering new gt3 as its super value for money. Really need porsche to improve length of warranty to three years as im really not amused on the prices for extending warranty eg 2 year old turbo, costs 105k ,6500miles, paid approx £600 for service,and then looking for approx £1400 for another year warranty.
Regards

 

[Rotorhead]

I'll be very interested to see what the 997.2 TT offers.

Clever as the 997.1 TT is, I also found it a bit sterile. IMO the engine and chassis lack the character and response of the 997.1 GT3, which is a far more rewarding drivers car.

Also, I've not yet come across an exhaust option that convincingly improves the TT without compromise. And they just sound louder, rather than nicer.

But, I could do with the four seats, so let's see if Porsche really can satisfy everyone......

 

[Lancerlot]

So then it comes down to perception rather than technical criticism. [8|]

997TT is a GT car. That's not in question - but is there a better all round, all weather piece of kit than the 997TT currently available? Somehow I doubt it. []

GT2, GT3 are sports cars. So it's an apples and pears comparison really.

Trouble is, no-one told Gary, so he still drives his as if it were a sports car.

As I have said on several occasions, in the right hands, 997TT is a very potent weapon. That's not to say there can't be model improvements.

Regards,

Clive

PS. Ferrari UK now offers 4 years warranty.

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: oliver

Clever as the 997.1 TT is, I also found it a bit sterile. IMO the engine and chassis lack the character and response of the 997.1 GT3, which is a far more rewarding drivers car.

Oliver - Porsche will never be able to satisfy everyone all the time - no one can, but good points well made.

I suspect it will always be the case that the GT3 will be the more involving drive and the Turbo will have more grand tourer characteristics - otherwise why have 2 flagship models.

The GT3 will be motor sport focused and therefore for a Sunday drive out pretty much the best thing you can get for driver involvement. They have vastly improved the ease of daily use but it will still be first and foremost a motor sport focused drivers toy. Before I get beaten up I mean that as a compliment not as a criticism.

The Turbo therefore cannot cross to far over or they'll both end up as too similar products - hence the 4 wheel drive and more relaxed motorway manners etc. The USP for the Turbo has always been "the fastest point to point tool for real (UK) roads in all weathers" not quite the same as driver involvement

When I had a Gen 1 turbo for a long weekend I changed my mind - initially I was disappointed, and if I had done the usual 1 hour test drive I would have lost interest. Over the long weekend up in Yorkshire however the beast grew on me. I expected it to be a bigger faster version of my C2Sx51 - which it was most definately not, it was quite a different beast and took a little getting use to. At the same time it took a local on his sports bike some time to adjust to the fact I was wasting him on his favorite country road (short straights mind you, so cornering grip was key) - he asked me if I was running the thing on nitrous[] and I am a self confessed captain slow. So basically a bit of a Grand Tourer that picks up its skirts and flies when you want to.

 

[garyw]

Sunil, thanks for the reminder...

"IMO the engine and chassis lack the character and response of the 997.1 GT3"

I should hope it does!, totally different marketplace as Lancerlot has pointed out.

garyw

 

[Alex L]

Keep your eye on this thread over on Rennteam: http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20102081/9972_Turbo_info_thread/index.html

RT is usually the very first place on the web to divulge info on upcoming models.

With regards to what will be new, from my understanding it will be:

• Probably 997.2 Turbo model (out MY2010 ie. end of this year)
• Certainly A91 Turbo charged DI engine (producing about 500bhp and just under 700Nm torque with over-boost - as PDK box torque tolerance is this)
• Certainly PDK (optional from Jan/Feb 2010)
• Probably flappy paddles optional
• Probably deletion of sports chrono clock
• Probably Daytime running lights
• Certainly LED rear lights
• Certainly bigger brakes (to follow suit with 997.2 GT3)
• Certainly bigger 'shrek' wing mirrors
• Certainly adaptive headlights
• Probably SPASM
• Probably revised 4wd setup
• Certainly option of new 'Spyder' wheels
• Certainly an INCREASE in price despite the new engine saving Porsche at least 30k compared to the current one.

I really doubt a Sports Exhaust would be an option as Porsche tried for months to make one for the 997.1 and couldn't get it sounding good enough so they abandoned the project. What with Porsche's current financial situation there are rumours that all R&D projects have been halted, so unless an option is already developed then I doubt it will be now.

The 997.2 GT3 didn't get the DI A91 engine as it still isn't race proven and Porsche don't want to put PDK in a GTx as manual would still be better for tracks, so no need to change just yet. The Turbo on the other hand is primarily a GT car for Autobahn usage, so the only thing driving Porsche to make the new Turbo go around the ring faster is the Nissan GT-R!

Just speculating but other possibles include:

- AirLift kit for raising the nose
- Heads up display like on the BMWs
- Night vision display like on the Mercs
- Bang&Olufsen sound system like on the AM DBS

 

[Lancerlot]

Interesting that bigger brakes are on the cards. [8D]

My only criticism of my old speed yellow 997TT was that the car was under-braked on steels with 485 hp on tap.[]

Regards,

Clive

 

[Rotorhead]

ORIGINAL: garyw

"IMO the engine and chassis lack the character and response of the 997.1 GT3"

I should hope it does!, totally different marketplace as Lancerlot has pointed out.

I don't think the market place is that different. I assessed them both as day-to-day road cars and preferred the GT3.

Agree that the GT3 might not appeal to the TT Tiptronic cruisers, but the 997GT3 (.1 and .2) are amazingly proficient, practical and comfortable road (and track) cars. The only compromises are the lower front lip spoiler (easily replaced or hydraulic lift option on .2) and the absence of rear seats (theoretically fittable on .1, but few people do it).

I'm really interested in the forthcoming TT, but I sense that Porsche will move the GT3 and, particularly the RS, closer to the enthusiast and the make the TT the Gran Turismo - with PDK being virtually a default option.

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: oliver

I'm really interested in the forthcoming TT, but I sense that Porsche will move the GT3 and, particularly the RS, closer to the enthusiast and the make the TT the Gran Turismo - with PDK being virtually a default option.

In my opinion there is no reason other than desperately wanting PDK to wait for a 997.2 Turbo to come out. The 997.1 Turbo is a far more attractive option to me (given it's bulletproof engine and it's mod-ability).

The GT3 vs Turbo debate is always a big divider of people. To me the main differentiators are:

1) Power and more specifically torque. The GT3 has 430Nm torque from 5000 rpm, at 2000 rpm it has 308Nm. At 2000 rpm you have 680Nm torque on a standard Turbo (800Nm on mine)!! So unless you are in the right gear at the right time with a GT3 you might as well be driving a Pruis! So fine for tracks, but on the public roads the Turbo is FAR more usable with it's power delivery.

2) Weight. The GT3 is about 200kg lighter than a Turbo. That means it will handle FAR better than a Turbo ever could (well unless you fitted it with Nissan GT-R wizardry). I would much rather be driving a GT3 around twist hairpin back-roads than a Turbo. Saying that, B-roads in this country are VERY bumpy so stiffer suspension and lower ride height also work against the GT3 here.

Forgot one:

3) 4wd vs 2wd. 2wd is more fun in the dry but 4wd provided a huge advantage in the wet on public roads. Also 4wd makes the 911 a little heavier on the front end meaning the car not feeling 'as light' in steering when you accelerate.

I personally wouldn't buy another non-4wd non-Turbo car for public road use (well unless it had a great sounding V8, V10 or V12)

 

[Alex L]

I also want to get out of the downward spiral of losing £40 per day in depreciation which comes with trading in a perfectly good car for the latest model every couple of years.

If you keep your car then no more depreciation...

This is why I wanted a GT1 block before they disappear, so I can keep it forever [][]

 

[Gary C]

ORIGINAL: okellyt

And apparently there is one big surprise that is fully under wraps and any one in the know has to shoot themselves if they divulge it.

Air cooled with a proper manual gearbox []