Some More Gen2 Turbo Rumours

[Sunil]

ORIGINAL: Lancerlot

So then it comes down to perception rather than technical criticism. [8|]

Isn't perception is all that matters?

With the upcoming F450, Ferrari are expected to present a car which will not only be faster but one that will make driving it more of an occasion. With the F450, there is a focus on enhancing a person's perception of driving a sports car and one of the key factors in this respect is noise.

In my opinion, a sports car is not just about going fast but it's how it does it. Some might call that character.

Some 911 purists believe the 997 is sterile and has lost its character whereas I believe it is a great car. I wouldn't call myself a purist but I do enjoy driving. Although, I found the TT to be competent and exceptionally quick, it's not a 'sports car', it's a GT so we're in complete agreement on that. That's why I'm buying a GT3 - I want to drive a sports car - not a GT. If the Gen2 TT makes the transition from GT to sports car, then I'm very interested in having that as an everyday car but, right now, it just doesn't do it for me.

I'm not qualified to give a technical critique but I am qualified to state my opinion and that's no different to most of people who post on this forum.

I expect we would both agree that the TT is a masterpiece in what it sets out to do but we disagree with what it should be doing. You like it just the way it is and I think it should have been a sports car. There's nothing wrong with that because you're happy with the car you bought and I'm happy that I didn't buy it - it's all subjective and it's fine so long as we're all happy! []

 

[bobfair]

I look forward to updating the forum once my Gen 2 GT 3 arrives as then I will have owned both cars under discussion.

I went for a GT3 (despite being happy with my Turbo which has an aftermarket exhaust) because I wanted a bit more of a driving experience that I hope a Gen 2 GT3 will provide and because I enjoy my track days. However I will miss my Turbo and I hope that I will not be dissapointed with my decison because like Alex I could have kept the Turbo for a long time as its strengths and qualities have grown on me over the 30 months or so I have had the car. I will certainly miss the torque, amazing grip, sling shot accleration and being able to overtake GT3s in the wet.

I think Porsche could make a wider group of people happy if only they would provide a sports exhaust option for the Turbo which can not be that difficult given that every other car in the range has one as a option or as standard. That way you could spec the car as a pure GT or as a more sporty car. I think most enthusiasts would choose the latter (I went for a short shift box for example) but I understand why Porsche need to produce and sell the former. I can also understand why Porsche would want to keep a clear line between the two cars. Isnt the GT2 meant to be a more sporty Turbo and doesnt it have a sports exhaust?

I just hope that Porsche survives as an independent company and continues to offer us such choices so as we can continue to have this type of debate in this ever greener world. Unless they sort their debt problems pretty soon then I fear the worst

 

[Sunil]

Excellent post Bob. []

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: Sunil

Excellent post Bob. []

Ditto

 

[yan]

Further thoughts:
"Heads-up" display strikes me as useful - particularly with PDK knowing which gear you are in and whether the gearbox is close to shifting would be nice to see clearly in front of you. This could be for another day unfortunately since the face-lift seems to mean pre-built parts, e.g. lights, engine, which are direct replacements for the original 997 ones and therefore fewest changes on the production line. (Doesn't seem to be available on Panamera either.) Something like deletion of the sports chrono clock on the other hand might just be a "skip procedure" decision.

Maybe Porsche will surprise and offer a proper sequential box but I doubt that is in-keeping with such a "GT" car.

I suppose that one possible benefit of using the DFI engine could be that developing an adequate TT sports exhaust may well require less investment overall.

Here's hoping...

 

[yan]

I hear that an announcement of the model is imminent - announced early Aug. if not sooner...

I asked Porsche at Bleinham but true to form they didn't know anything.

 

[carreraboy]

ORIGINAL: okellyt

Dear All

Spies have been out again and confirmed a couple of rumors ref next gen 997 Turbo.

Allegedly its definitely a DFI unit, PDK will be available, Power will be approx 505bhp-ish (maybe slightly higher).

And apparently there is one big surprise that is fully under wraps and any one in the know has to shoot themselves if they divulge it.

Pure Rumor - they might be responding to customer feedback and be producing a sports exhaust for the turbo

It would appear PGMBH have been stung into action by recent encroaches by other manufactures, in particular the Nissan thing so are allegedly pulling out the stops to make the next gen Turbo something special. The phrase I keep getting from my spies is "a lot more than just a face lift"

So clearly the propaganda department are working well and releasing tantalizing bits of info to get our interest up to fever pitch come the Autumn/Winter launch.

I can't wait to see what actually turns up.

All I need now are a few new clients or a grossly overpaid job somewhere else so I can save the pennies for one[]

The last rear engined flat 6 has rung it's last beathe to the death ... how much further can Porsche defy physics with reliability and flog this original 1963 2.0ltr organic block? We are now at 4.0ltr in the RSR race car ... puffing away trying to keep up with the V8 and V10 Supercars ... the 911 was never meant to be a supercar, but yet so Iconic and a Porsche money maker they keep with the "old school" engine and layout.

Well let me introduce you to the ALL new 998 ......

Mid-engined Supercar ...... available at first as 998S V8 then 998/6 very entry level 6 pot and then the stonking twin turbo 998 Turbo with a version of the GT3 thrown followed by all conquering 999 V10 in all it's derivatives .......[]

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: carreraboy

Well let me introduce you to the ALL new 998 ......

Mid-engined Supercar ...... available at first as 998S V8 then 998/6 very entry level 6 pot and then the stonking twin turbo 998 Turbo with a version of the GT3 thrown followed by all conquering 999 V10 in all it's derivatives .......[]

Nah the entire 991 range will be various small capacity hybrid Turbo Diesel engines the way the EU CO2 targets are moving!

RC on Rennteam uploaded a video of him riding in a test mule 997.2 Turbo the other day:

http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20110287/Re_9972_Turbo_info_thread/page1.html#p20110287

 

[yan]

Mysterious - that's a Tiptronic instrument cluster still with only 5 gears unless I've missed something in a range where Gen I could probably do with an extra gear...

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: J

Mysterious - that's a Tiptronic instrument cluster still with only 5 gears unless I've missed something in a range where Gen I could probably do with an extra gear...

Read further on:

http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread/20110755/Re_9972_Turbo_info_thread/page1.html#p20110755

 

[okellyt]

So in other words Porsche are still keeping us guessing while their rumour mill still keeps us talking about it[]

 

[yan]

The words "non-standard" seem to appear a lot so lacks tangibility if ever a rumour was - I can try and second guess a hidden sub-text but not long to go until the facts emerge if my contacts haven't mislead me...

 

[Alex L]

ORIGINAL: J

The words "non-standard" seem to appear a lot so lacks tangibility if ever a rumour was - I can try and second guess a hidden sub-text but not long to go until the facts emerge if my contacts haven't mislead me...

I assume 'non-standard' equals test mules only.

 

[Sunil]

ORIGINAL: J
I hear that an announcement of the model is imminent - announced early Aug. if not sooner...

I've heard the same thing. In fact, a friend of mine deposited £10k with the OPC this afternoon.

Considering that the GT3 RS is expected to be announced on the 19th August, I would expect the TT announcement to be sooner rather than later.

 

[marlin]

The Turbo does create some strong feelings even amongst the faithful. Only one thing is certain the gen 2 will be better than the first one. There are no bad Porsches just some are better than others []

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: Sunil

ORIGINAL: J
I hear that an announcement of the model is imminent - announced early Aug. if not sooner...

I've heard the same thing.  In fact, a friend of mine deposited £10k with the OPC this afternoon.

Considering that the GT3 RS is expected to be announced on the 19th August, I would expect the TT announcement to be sooner rather than later.

GT3 is already solid out and oversubscribed for any defaults - ie there is several extra people per car depositing 10k in case some one already on the list defaults.

The gen 2.TT is in a similar position - I put a letter of intent in several months ago and was told I'd likely have a 9 -12 month wait from first delivery date to earliest date I could get one...... production is being heavily cut back. []

Translation a letter of intent in April 09 might get me a Jan 2011 car.

 

[yan]

Interesting - customers are queueing up to give them money yet they are notably restricting supply, despite their ability to increase it without much difficulty if I am not mistaken. Although I thought they had claimed they to want to support residuals, given they are cash-strapped is this still part of their plan I wonder.

I'm at the front of a queue but will be studying the functionality long-and-hard before making a firm decision.

 

[fireblade]

ORIGINAL: Alex L

ORIGINAL: oliver

I'm really interested in the forthcoming TT, but I sense that Porsche will move the GT3 and, particularly the RS, closer to the enthusiast and the make the TT the Gran Turismo - with PDK being virtually a default option.

In my opinion there is no reason other than desperately wanting PDK to wait for a 997.2 Turbo to come out. The 997.1 Turbo is a far more attractive option to me (given it's bulletproof engine and it's mod-ability).

The GT3 vs Turbo debate is always a big divider of people. To me the main differentiators are:

1) Power and more specifically torque. The GT3 has 430Nm torque from 5000 rpm, at 2000 rpm it has 30Nm!!!! At 2000 rpm you have 680Nm torque on a standard Turbo (800Nm on mine)!! So unless you are in the right gear at the right time with a GT3 you might as well be driving a Pruis! So fine for tracks, but on the public roads the Turbo is FAR more useable with it's power delivery.

2) Weight. The GT3 is about 200kg lighter than a Turbo. That means it will handle FAR better than a Turbo ever could (well unless you fitted it with Nissan GT-R wizardry). I would much rather be driving a GT3 around twist hairpin backroads than a Turbo. Saying that, B-roads in this country are VERY bumpy so stiffer suspension and lower ride height also work against the GT3 here.

Forgot one:

3) 4wd vs 2wd. 2wd is more fun in the dry but 4wd provided a huge advantage in the wet on public roads. Also 4wd makes the 911 a little heavier on the front end meaning the car not feeling 'as light' in steering when you accelerate.

I personally wouldn't buy another non-4wd non-Turbo car for public road use (well unless it had a great sounding V8, V10 or V12)

Certainly agree about 4WD! My first 4WD Porsche was a 964 then a 996C4S Tiptronic. When getting the 964 I mentioned to the OPC that my dream car would be a 4WD Turbo Tiptronic having had a love affair with the 968 Tiptronic albeit using the gear lever just like on a motorbike ie sequential. (Pity that is not still available) I bought the 964 when it was quoted as the fastest cross Europe car and particularly in the wet it carried on fast when others had to slow because of loss of grip affecting acceleration, cornering and braking. The C4S was just as admirable but not as loud! Anyway the OPC said that it would never be made but last year I took delivery of the most fantastic and useable car I have ever had. My 997 TT Tiptronic is in use every day, short commute and despite my shortcomings as a driver (must get some lessons!) puts up a very credible performanceon the track and particularly in the wet easily copes with GT3's of the same vintage. Sure the GT3 is more focused and in the right hands must be really fun on a track but if you can only have one all purpose car and are an average driver the TT fits the bill.

F1 proves that the car is the star and the driver makes only a small difference. The TT is really so accomplished as an all rounder that virtually any reasonable driver can achieve a very satisfactory performance both on and off a track. It is a shame that the initial cost is so high but it does include a lot of stuff that many people (including myself) wouldn't want and wouldn't pay extra for if we had a choice!

I await all the brickbats etc from the purists but I don't care, my TT is my dream car, Porsche keep them coming!

 

[garyw]

More rumours coming through

997.2 Turbo
3.8L DFI Biturbo
500bhp
PDK option

 

[okellyt]

Gary

Pretty much matches what I heard, 505-ish BHP maybe turned up to 515 but no more. 3.8l DFI Biturbo with PDK. Better fuel economy and lower emissions will be high up the priority list.


May have an over boost of torque and Power, will have one "customer delight" feature that no one is allowed to talk about....