Soooooo much power!!!!!

[Booman]

i took the car to ninemeister in warrington yesterday for the alignment sorting, which was carried out in a manner, to be expected of a well respected independant.
but, what really got my bits working overtime was the 350bhp upgrade that they do for the 993/964. i was given the information bumf when i got there, and i asked all the right questions which were answered in a very erudite and polite way, but, there were no cars available for a drive, bummer!!!![]
then, bugger me, a guy who works for 4techsystems, and ex f1 mb to boot, who developed the package in conjunction with 9m, just happened to be collecting his car which had the upgrade fitted. got talking to the guy and not only did he take me out in his 993 c2, but let me have a drive in it[].
WOW, WOW, WOW, this thing really shifts, in a manner ive rarely experienced before. ive driven a few 993tt and this car certainly appeared to match them, to the point of spinning the wheels in 3rd gear. the engine is so responsive and free revving, light flywheel fitted aswell, and pulled like a proverbial train. its not cheap at 10k but the gains really appear to be phenomenal, and if you are considering a top end rebuild anyway, then its certainly worth lookin at.
the owner had recently been on a track day at donnongton, and afterwards the gt3 guys wanted to know what he was running cos they couldnt keep up! the turbo was the next thing for me, but, now i am seriously considering the upgrade and saving myself a few quid, not that her indoors knows yet[] i have discussed this with our ice guru oliver, and he was/is thinking about it as well, ive no doubt he will be on here soon, to enlighten you with the technical details, im off for a beer[][][]

regards....g

c2s

 

[Jacob]

Glenn,

You can do as many mods as you want to my future car - but I can assure you this: These kind of mods will add no value on to the purchase price of the car whatsoever.

BTW - 258.3

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

Oh Maurice, seen as my surname is Thomas, I thought I was the forum expert in doubting......[]

I was fortunate enough to have a long conversation with Colin last year, whilst my car was being set-up. Having met and worked with some true engineers and being the son of one, (by that I mean the ones that know what a whitworth thread looks like and know what a brass hammer is for - not the ones that only know what a book looks like), all I can say is I was well impressed! I don't think any of us would doubt his ability behind the wheel, but his grasp of engineering an engine is without easy comparison. The heads are absolutely exquisite - I fancy one as a paperweight, to be going on with!

The conversion is really interesting. You can end up with the (romance?) of the last of the air-cooled cars, with a level of performance that will rival a GT3. No turbochargers to go south, no 4WD to dull the experience and add extra weight. You get a car that can be all things to all people - good as a daily driver, good on the track. If you consider, as Glenn says, the cost of a re-build and the uprate, take a good 964 or 993, give it to them and you end up with a hell of a package for a lot less than good GT3 money - and that's before you've lost a bit of mass and made some of the other tweeks we all advocate to add to the mix! Sure, the GT3 boys might have convincing arguments against what I'm saying, some of which could be quite valid, but I don't think any of them would deny that what 9M are offering is a really attractive proposition.

As for spinning wheels, well I suppose if you've got that type of power, not to mention torque, without fancy electronics the physics are bound to take over! Having chased Glenn through Derbyshire a few times and knowing his ability, if he says it's this good then roll on re-build time!!!!!

Now what's the going rate for a testacle on the open market...........[][]

Regards

 

[Sundeep]

power.... so about 350 horses and what about the all important torque.. where and how much ?

 

[Booman]

according to 9m's figures, the torques up to 422nm @5400rpm with more than 350nm available from 3000rpm to the 6800 redline. a significant increase im sure you will agree, but these figures do not do justice to actually driving the thing, it really is that good maurice[8|]
the car i drove had been dynoed at 360bhp, and after experiencing my spleen ,being rammed into the rear of the seat, i dont doubt it for one second[8D]

hey jake, 258.3, not bad for a pesky 3.2, but not really in 993 territory eh[][][] as for the mods, im sure you will still be tempted[] your new car simply keeps gettin better[][][]

regards g

c2s

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

ORIGINAL: Sundeep

power.... so about 350 horses and what about the all important torque.. where and how much ?

From what I can recall, power is quoted at slightly more than 350 BHP. Torque wise, a standard engine has about 350 Nm at 5,200 RPM. The conversion lifts this to about 420 Nm at circa 5,400 RPM, but the really good bit is that it gives about 350Nm between 3,000 RPM and the redline!!!!![8D]

You up for selling a few body parts too, Sundeep??????[]

Regards

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

And what are you doing on here at this time of the morning Glenn!!!!!! I could have saved myself a keyboard workout!!!!!

So if you get yours fettled and sell it to Jacob, I'll get mine done and keep it. You get your new car and Jacob and I will see you whince every time we give it the beans on a run!!!!!!![]

Regards

 

[Sundeep]

don't you boys still use Imperial Lbs/ft !!!

Nm []

so shouldn't that BHP be in PS's ! [&:]

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

We're from the (proper) north, mate!!!! We've still got horses and carts up here!!!! And haven't you ever heard of a pint of Golden.....[]

Regards

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

... and as luck would have it, there's a three page spread in this month's Total 911. Makes for really interesting reading. The idea of a normally aspirated 440 BHP 993 tickles the taste buds!!!

All they need now is a demo car - and a very large appointment book......[]

Regards

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

There lies the problem though - after 180,000 on the original engine, I'm only about 5% down on the manufacturers quoted power. No nasty vibrations, no nasty noises and no excessive smoke. Just wondering how much more it has to give!

Maybe a remap in the meantime might satisfy the urge for the 9M treatment........[]

Regards

 

[bobafett]

This i find really interesting, I am sorry but Porsches are not that fast. 10K to get just 350bhp is absurd. I have owned a few cars that would eat all Porsches that cost 10K.

My point is if you want power and i mean power, spend 10k on a tuned Skyline GTR, i owned one with a proven 600bhp at the hubs, and nothing would come close except some real exotica. My Porsche is Metro in comparison.

The flip side is an unreliable car at breaking point. My car is factory albeit exhaust and decat, out of the box reliable, resonably quick car. Tuned cars are like athletes you never know when they will pull a muscle, and they will.

Porsches are reliable and do high miles because most are not tampered with, the same came not be said about tuned cars.

Just food for thought.

 

[kennyboy]

wow looks like the 9m boys are the talk of the town at the moment - good to see the figures add-up with someone actually driving the car...... thanks for the info Glenn..... oh and thanks also as I now dream about this conversion and am considering selling my granny! []

definately added to my 'wish list' or perhaps the 'oh yeah maybe one day' list...

will have to make do with a remap in the interim.

 

[Booman]

my goodness, oliver selling his left testacle[&:], and kenny is selling granny[], god knows what would go on the market if you guys drove the damn thing.....

i put the lady of hodgson towers, in the local rag this week-end.....got a potential buyer coming around tommora, sod the re-map[][][]

regards g

c2s

 

[kennyboy]

I get the feeling that like me, some others would rather spend a fortune on their own normally aspirated 993 than swap for a turbo....

For me it's the sound and power delivery of a high output na engine that you can't beat - the power is more in proportion to the revs, then there's the sound...[]

Also isn't there a lot of satisfaction in upgrading your own 993 to be faster/more powerful than it looks - it's a project, you could go on forever but every time you 'tweek' it's almost like it's a new car all over again.

now then I must leave this thread and look for one titled 'must have mods for your 993 for less than £50' [&o]

 

[bobafett]

Hi i think you are missing my point, if aimed at me..

Im purely saying upgraded is good, making it fragile is not. I am only going on experinece, having tuned up nearly every car i have had.

Also a 350 bhp 1500kg Porsche is still not electrifying for the outlay, there is so much faster out there. You may laugh but my Volvo R (the quick one) tuned at just over 300bhp (£1000) would not be disgraced buy my Porsche, the trouble is it looks like a shed, then there are corners! If she blows its not the end of the world.

I can see the point in upgrading but pounds for punch, it does not seem good value for money.

 

[bobafett]

LOL, they do a Carbon fibre airfreshener for under £50, and saves 60gramms on coventional ones.

All the best.

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

ORIGINAL: GLENN.A.HODGSON

i put the lady of hodgson towers, in the local rag this week-end.....got a potential buyer coming around tommora, sod the re-map[][][]

Can't we shove you in the local rag and keep Lisa - she's far more appealing. Might not get as much for you, but Colin's in business and might negotiate a register re-map session with the proceeds.......[][][]

Regards

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

ORIGINAL: bobafett

This i find really interesting, I am sorry but Porsches are not that fast. 10K to get just 350bhp is absurd. I have owned a few cars that would eat all Porsches that cost 10K.

My point is if you want power and i mean power, spend 10k on a tuned Skyline GTR, i owned one with a proven 600bhp at the hubs, and nothing would come close except some real exotica. My Porsche is Metro in comparison.

The flip side is an unreliable car at breaking point. My car is factory albeit exhaust and decat, out of the box reliable, resonably quick car. Tuned cars are like athletes you never know when they will pull a muscle, and they will.

Porsches are reliable and do high miles because most are not tampered with, the same came not be said about tuned cars.

Just food for thought.

Very valid point - there are some real high power cars around that you can buy for not a lot of outlay. My mate had a Skyline before he emigrated - one hell of a car, but wouldn't have suited my taste.

From my perspective, yes £10k is a hell of a lot of money. But what do you get? A few years R&D, six new heads, a fully re-built top end and a re-map. Go to any indie and ask for a quote for a top end re-build and a re-map, then knock it off the £10K - suddenly it's not quite as expensive. I love the 993 and a change for more power means either RS, (rare as hen's teeth and a fortune to buy), or Turbo, (big money for a good one, even bigger money for an 'S', 4WD, heavier and more bits to go wrong).

The interesting thing about this conversion is the way it is done. The focus is on developing power and torque via the removal of poor design and its associated constraints - sort of finishing the Porsche development, if you like. There's no significant increase in heat or mechanical stress, so what results is an engine that's just as bullet-proof, but higher powered. Driveability is maintained or improved and I'm presuming the service schedules and practices do not alter.

I suppose the final bit of the puzzle, for me, is what other companies offer. You can go to Germany and throw far more money at a tuner, ending up with results that are either worse or no better. In England, I don't know of a comparative option - if anyone does, I'll stand corrected!

I guess there will be a lot of views from many different corners, some of which could be very valid. Still, makes for an interesting debate, doesn't it......[][][]

Regards

 

[Booman]

excuse me mr thomas, im very particular where im shoved[][][]

i agree its a very expensive upgrade, and if you are considering going down that route, you will have to have to think long and hard before committing to it. but, if as in olivers case, you have 180k on the clock, and a re-build was factored in the purchase price of the car initially, why not go the whole hog and really transform your 993[8D]

regards g

c2s