Soooooo much power!!!!!

[bobafett]

Oliver your car is a perfect example for its reliability with miles. No tuner will tell you the extra stresses tuning will have on your car, its not in there interest to do so.

It is a mathimatical fact, more power, more stresses, less engine life. Dont let anyone tell you different.

It is a good debate though.
cheers.

 

[mike cooper]

Dont follow the logic mathematically or otherwise that more power means more wear. With the 993 you have an engine in standard form that is putting out circa 290 BHP and by experience alone has proved ultra reliable. I think the fact the 996 turbo. 996 GT3 and 996 GT2 have proven more relaible per model than the 996 3.4 and 3.6 standard models bears someway due to the fact their origins lay in the 993/964/GT1. The reason why some of the models mentioned from our Japanese friends whilst agreeably extremely quick have proved unreliable is because at lot of those tuners have opted for a cheap quick fix solution. By my reckoning a Nissan Skyline GTR was a good deal more expensive new than a humble Porsche 993. You don't see may Porsche 993's however for £10K. I think the work that Colin has embarked on and the subsequent cost reflect that you get what you pay for. I think it has been taken somewhat out of context. For half the price Colin at 9M will supply and fit a Supercharger kit that will achieve the same but what he has done with the latest project seems to me to be a succesful attempt to achieve all of these results whilst retaining the integrity of a normally aspirated car. Yes £10K is not cheap, then neither is a professional Zymol treatment at £350 when the Car Wash at the Tesco's is £3.50. You really do get what you pay for and any respectable tuner would be shooting themselves in the foot to take a road development programme beyond reliability and longevity.

As you rightly observed - a very good debatable topic.

Mike Cooper

 

[Jacob]

ORIGINAL: oliverjamesthomas

ORIGINAL: GLENN.A.HODGSON

i put the lady of hodgson towers, in the local rag this week-end.....got a potential buyer coming around tommora, sod the re-map[][][]

Can't we shove you in the local rag and keep Lisa - she's far more appealing. Might not get as much for you, but Colin's in business and might negotiate a register re-map session with the proceeds.......[][][]

Regards

Glenn and Lisa to go in the local rag as a couple (might get a bit more interest) proceeds to go to fund Olivers Re-build/Re-map and Jacobs new GT3.[]

With Porsches built the way they are it is very difficult to get an instant bhp gain at low cost. I have a friend who has a Supra TT. He has spent £300 on a boost controller kit, spends another £150 on a de-cat. Raises the boost to 1.2 bar and is pushing out around 400bhp.
His intention is to go to a big single turbo and push out 500 bhp at the wheels. All this for about 3k!!
The car is silly quick - but it is not a Porsche.

What options do you have?
Raise capacity to 3.8 + 993SS cams (£££)
Install aftermarket supercharger (Porsche - supercharging?)
Engine Management upgrade
Sell your car & buy a 993 Turbo.

I think you really need to ask yourself, how much power do you want? is it worth upgrading your car? have you got a spare 10k?.
Of course the residual value of your car will not increase by the same amount - so when you do come to re-sell, are you prepared to lose out

Just my 0.02p worth

 

[oliverjamesthomas]

ORIGINAL: mike cooper

I think the work that Colin has embarked on and the subsequent cost reflect that you get what you pay for. I think it has been taken somewhat out of context. For half the price Colin at 9M will supply and fit a Supercharger kit that will achieve the same but what he has done with the latest project seems to me to be a succesful attempt to achieve all of these results whilst retaining the integrity of a normally aspirated car.

Mike Cooper

Fully agree with that one! The blown option is there and from what I've heard of it, a cracking option it is too. When I was talking to him, Colin was keen to point out the differences between the N/A route and supercharging. Both give tremendous results, but drive differently. I lived with a supercharged Merc for eight years, my first 'powerful' car and one that I remember fondly. Never a moments bother and fantastic build quality. In that instance, it was a luxury barge to some extent and whilst being really quick, developed its power in a 'lazy big American V8 way', if that's understandable. For a 993, I prefer the idea of something more 'athletic' - and that's all it is, just personal preference.

The other factor is that in my case, with 180,000 plus thousand on the clock, I'd think myself foolish to fit a blower without a fettle up. Add the cost of the blower to the cost of a re-build and it comes to the same as the N/A route. Oh, what a decision.... It's like being the kid in the candy shop all over again..........[]

Funny little aside here.... Do you reckon there'll be a certain bloke on the Wirral smiling to himself at all the debate we're having? Or maybe he'll just be thinking what a bunch of nutters we all are, conjecturing on things we don't fully understand and getting the technical bits all wrong !....[] Just wait whilst the water-cooled stuff is available. Us air-cooled lot aren't a patch on those GT3 boys where an argument's concerned.....[]

Regards

 

[kennyboy]

bobafett - my comments were not aimed at you.

I'm sure you are making good points but being a 993 nut, and being on this forum - there's not much I can say in reply.

 

[sawood12]

I'd like to echo comments about tuning Porsches does not necessarily mean compromising on reliability. There are many hard core 944 turbo tuners arond the world who are pushing out well in excess of 400 BHP at the wheels (and more in cases where the engine capacity has been increased) on engines that are over 150k miles old before mods who are not reporting major engine failures or a sharp increase in unreliability. Obviously alot depends upon how you drive the car but the difference with German cars is that generally they are so overengineered that the core mechanicals of the engine could probably handle three times the factory standard power before you started having major problems with reliability.

I know of a couple of work collegues who have very higly tuned Scooby's that, as mentioned previously, would leave any Porsche standing in a simple drag race. However alot of this power is not available at all times so when you boil it down to drivability on the twisty stuff often the Porsches leave the highly tuned Jap cars standing as the power is on tap throughout the whole rev range. It's a fact of life - if you rely on big turbo's and high boost pressures to get power you get massive lag which is why Ruf always work hard to get their substantial power hikes on relatively low boost pressures. A much more expensive route to power but with much better and more usable results.

 

[bobafett]

I had a 930 suspersport with a Paxton Supercharger 360bhp, it was quite a quick car, no lag, just go and sounded da bomb.

The flip side was, it breathed so heavy, that smells and oil vapour would pour into the ventilation system. The car was trying to poison me!!

I have experinced, many, many upgrades, some cheap, some very expensive, my wifes AMG SLK has the potential of 450bhp with upgraded ECU, tempting, but no, I expect the car to do many reliable miles without missing a beat, the same can not be said about a tuned car.

I am a complete 993 nut, beleive me, its a great alround package, a jack of all trades, master of none. I have upgraded my car, but everything changed i have kept and can be put back on.

I will add one major note, one reason i think is vital to the sucess of the 993 (apart from the look), its reliabilty with miles, for the performance it dishes out. Take this away and did you see the buy a super car for 10k on top gear....

One other thing, when i came to sell the 930 no one wanted it, something to do with originality!!

All the best
lee.