Spring Fettling

[plhorner]

Just about to start considering a few spring jobs now the weather is getting a little better. I'm looking at fitting new pads at the front along with new hoses all round and a brake fluid change.
My thoughts so far are either standard OE or Pagid pads, I ocassionally do a track day (although it has to be said its been 2 years since the last one) but otherwise its normal road use. I'm thinking about fitting stainless braided hoses, has anybody else fitted these ? Does it have much effect of the feel of the brakes, pros and cons and are they easy to fit ........? Regarding brake fluid, it sounds like ATE super racing blue sounds like one of the better ones, any other recomendations? And finally, where's the best palce to spend my cash, would the likes of Bert Gear stock all these bits?

Cheers,

 

[Guest]

Phil,

Check the other post on brake pads, I have just gone for Porterfield and Castrol SRF, but there are others here far more qualified to comment than me.

Cheers

H

 

[bones]

I fitted stainless steel hoses as part of a general brake refurbishment I completed two years ago. I used caliper kits to refresh the calipers and replaced the disks with drilled items. The brake fluid was upgraded to ATE blue and I laquered the calipers. The result is great brakes with a tad more feel and some improvement in overall stopping distance. Non of my feelings about the brakes have been scientifically tested so make up your own mind, I bought the Goodridge hoses from Design 911 for £39.99, the ATE Blue fluid is expensive at £16.00 a ltr from Power Marques I wouldn't use anything else now. All of these jobs are relatively easy if time consuming but if you have old brake lines on there you will need to go steady on the unions and don't use heat.

 

[plhorner]

Cheers chaps, just had a look on the Power Marques site (who incidentally are local to me) an they're now advertising ATE Super Blue at 9.95 / Ltr...... sounds like good value.
Any idea what the brake dust is like with alternative pads mentioned?

 

[937carrera]

Fitting the braided Goodridge hoses is certainly a good step. Easy to fit, no downsides I can think of.

Fluid wise ATE blue seems popular, but I have never had any problems with AP racing. I did try Castrol SRF.......not impressed, very expensive and required constant bleeding.

Pads wise, look at the other thread, I have made my own comments there.

Brake dust ??? who cares when you have superior brakes [][]

 

[3.2_fordy]

If you are changing the fluid I recommend that you bleed the clutch it shares a common fluid reservoir with the brakes. and I think this get overlooked, and its a sod to do.

Did all of them last year and I know

 

[Jamie Summers]

I run Porterfield pads in combination with braided hoses and Super Blue fluid, which has pretty much eliminated the track day brake fade problems I was having before. All sourced from Ninemeister, (Colin Belton is regarded as one of the gurus on 3.2 brakes and suspension). Brake dust is no worse than OE pads but the one obvious downside is that the brakes tend to squeal a bit with ordinary road use, also when cold they sometimes need a bit of a shove to get the car to stop. Some people will tell you you shouldn't use pads like these on the road, but they are absolutely fine as far as I'm concerned, you just need to remember to be a bit more careful.
The other thing worth doing is replacing discs all round with OE items (if you happen to have after market, as I did). After market seem to be fine for road use but seem to struggle on track (I went right through an aftermarket disc a couple of weekends ago !), the price differential is minimal (front discs £47 + VAT).

Jamie

 

[plhorner]

ORIGINAL: 3.2 fordy

If you are changing the fluid I recommend that you bleed the clutch it shares a common fluid reservoir with the brakes. and I think this get overlooked, and its a sod to do.

Did all of them last year and I know

Thanks for the advice chaps, I've ordered the braided hoses and a shift linkage kit from Pelican, with the current exchange rates it seemed daft not to (£50 + taxes if I get collered). Anybody else ordered anything this way, how does the UK taxation system work on such packages?
Just about to order the ATE Super Blue. As for the pads, the jury is still out as I'm still trying to work out what I'm running at the moment....watch this space.

Fordy, thanks for the advice regarding the clutch, I might give it a miss though as my car has the 915 box and cable clutch ... thankfully by the sound of things!!

 

[bones]

I recently bought a Triad West Performance exhaust from the States it cost £233.00 including $66.00 shipping. Nobody asked for taxes to be paid. If I hadn't had to pay shipping how little would it have cost me , we get royaly ripped off in this country.

 

[Guest]

There may be other options for exhausts within the UK at a better price. Its a bit of a "watch this space" but I hope to be testing one soon. I think its main benefit will be lighter weight than OE but with a reasonable track-day friendly volume level. It will be a straight bolt-on replacement. The plan is to dyno test etc but I doubt that just a back box alone will liberate any real horsepower. Can't say much more just yet.

RB

 

[plhorner]

Any idea how much brake fluid it will take to re-fill the whole system and blead it through?

 

[plhorner]

Right, all the parts are now on order. ATE Super Blue, Pagid's and Stainless Hoses.
I've just been looking at the bleading procedure for the brakes and it looks like it might be worth getting the car up on axle stands so I can get all four wheels off. Has anybody managed to do this using just trolley jacks and axle stands in the confines of a 'home' garage? I've jacked the front of the car in the past and put the trolley under the front of the chassis just behind the valance, however I've never tackeled the back and I'm unsure where to place the jack. Can you jack the rear of the car under the engine ? I'm always a little nervious about doing this, any suggestions?

 

[Guest]

Phil

I've done just the back a couple of times - I used a trolley jack on the normal lifting point (with a jack plate) and put stands on the lifted side and then did the other. No problems but I can't remember where I put the Jack stands! - only remember it was very obvious where they should go!. If you're taking all the wheels off you should be able to do a full side at a time this way (the front goes higher when lifting for obvious reasons)

Roy

 

[tim court]

Has anybody managed to do this using just trolley jacks and axle stands in the confines of a 'home' garage?

This procedure is not recommended and is pretty dangerous for two reasons.

During lifting, because the steel wheels normally fitted to trolley jacks are small diameter and tend not to move slightly to allow for the curved path of the car as it lifts.

As the other end of the car is on axle stands, they also stay put and as the lift progresses the axle stands can tip or a leg collapse (as the load is not evenly distributed down the three legs).

Used to do this sort of thing all the time in my younger days but used ramps a lot - much safer. Watched a mate's car twist round and fall over as one of his Halfords axle stand collapsed. Oh how we laughed cos he had already taken the rears off and we couldn't get a jack underneath to get it back up! Obviously he wasn't underneath. We were very young but I don't think even we would have laughed at that!!! As an aside watched the same mate slowly and carefully inching his way up a set of ramps then forgetting to slip into neutral, he dumped the clutch and shot straight off the end. Result? - mangled ramps, cills and wings. We all cried with laughter!!! He was a twonk!

If you do decide to attempt it you need to leave all wheels on (Slacken the nuts first!) After lifting and before it falls over you need to lift each axle-stand supported corner to adjust the position so it is evenly and vertically loaded.

You then have the second reason why it is dangerous - even now you have a car raised on three points and this is very liable to rotate with only the slightest pressure as you carry out a bit of spanner work at any of the corners. You really need four points properly vertically loaded.

There is another option and that is to use your Wife or Mother-in-law to carry out all works beneath the car.

If it does fall off a) it will not hurt you one bit.... and b) you could still get a jack under the car even if she is flattened a bit.....[8|]

If you do decide to go ahead - as soon as you get a wheel off, stuff it under somewhere solid so that it will stop you getting crushed in the likely event of an accident. Keep your mobile handy as well or ensure you have someone within hearing distance of your screams.

 

[bones]

Tim I think that's probably the finest post in the world on safety and supporting a vehicle on axle stands.

 

[plhorner]

OK, bad idea. I'll settle for the front or rear being raised, it will just mean the brake bleeding process will take a lot longer.
Still begs the question, whats the easiest way to just lift the rear??

 

[tim court]

I am flattered and honoured kind sir

 

[plhorner]

ORIGINAL: tim court

I am flattered and honoured kind sir

Where as I could be flattenend and laughed at [][]

 

[bones]

Bearing in mind everything Tim said the way I have raised the rear on my 911 without any mishaps is...... with the car on level ground chock the front wheels and raise the rear by jacking from underneath the sump plate with a wooden block or rolled up newspaper preventing scratching of the metal. Put the axle stands under the torsion bar end caps. A friend and I completely rebuilt the calipers and fitted stainless steel hoses and drilled disks over a weekend doing front and rear seperatlely and taking care setting up the car with safety always in mind.

 

[Guest]

It is perfectly safe to have the car on four axle stands if you are carefull how you raise it. Mine is happily sat with no wheels on as we speak. You do need to be carefull about how you do this though. So the post from Tim has some good points, on my garge floor the wheels of the trolley jack will move when you jack the car. Just make sure that you have jack facing the direction you need it to move. Also do each corner at one time. and loosen the wheels nuts when all four wheels are on the ground, unless you can have someone sat in the car to apply the brakes.

For the rear you can raise it on the jacking point and put the stand under the torsion bar cover. You need to get the jack at the correct angle so that the axle stand will still fit under. Do this both sides. With the axle stands under, leave the wheels on, whilst you do the front.

Now do the front, same plan but put the axle stands under the front of the suspension joint (where the torsion bar joins the chassis leg). when you let the jack down, do it slowly and readjust the postion of the stand. It is also a good idea to put something soft between the stand and the car. I also tend to leave the jack with a bit of wood on it under the engine. Also rock the car (not whilst you are under it!!) when on stands to be sure it doesnt move, and as mentioned stick the wheels back under.

The only car I have had trouble with is Simon Ds supersport with turbo 2 kit, but we still managed that.

If you are worried about the jack and axles stands just purchase quality items - Halfords for £20 is probably not going to be the best kit. Check they have a kite mark etc. Also check Pelican for proper 911 jacks, capable of lifting to about 1m off the ground.

Dont be scared - just be sensible.

H
You will bleed the brakes much better if the car is raised and level.