Stupidly Blinded By The Porsche Brand

[Guest]

Being a Porsche fan all my life I have always dreamed of owning one. Recently I bought a mint 98 Boxster with 29000 miles on the clock with a pretty comprehensive service history. I have even joined the PCGB. I booked the car in to our OPC for a mjor service to put my mind at rest that all was well with the car. They have reported back to me that there are metal fragments in the oil and that the intermediate shaft bearing has failed. As I have only covered about 500 miles in the car since I bought it I am extremely disapointed that such a major failure could occur in what I thought was the pinnacle of German Engineering. All the OPC is interested in doing is repairing the car at a cost of 7000.00 and are completely not interested in persueing any claim for this failure. They have told me that this is not common ( who is lying here). I have since reseached this issue and it appears that this is a known design fault in the 986 engine so surely after only covering 29000 miles Porsche should under the sale of goods act which clearly states that goods must be fit for purpose "regardless of age" should at help with the repair cost. If Porsche have designed obsolecence into this engine they should do something about it when they fail. This has shattered a life time dream for me and I am extremely disapointed. I was obviously blinded by the brand that I have always loved. I will never buy another Porsche as long as I live, I wish I had bought another BMW as they have never let me down or failed perhaps Porsche can learn from BMW.

I Davis

 

[oliver]

If I was buying a 9 year old Porsche, I think I would have had it inspected beforehand [&:]

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[Delbox]

Ian,

At the risk of sounding patronising and, perhaps, sanctimonious - which is not my intent, did you buy from an OPC?

Did you have a pre-purchase inspection undertaken?

Did you get a warranty?

A 'pretty comprehensive service history' doesn't sound like a full service history - and clearly you had some misgivings, having booked in your car to an OPC for a major service.

Caveat emptor! Perhaps you should have investigated the issues that might affect any car that you were considering - before you bought it. Notwithstanding the mileage, it's how the car has been used and cared for that is key. Therefore, I'm not surprised that Porsche won't meet your costs.

The 'Sale of Goods Act' will only come into play if you can prove that the car was always serviced in accordance with the manufacturer's schedule - using appropriate parts and lubricants where necesssary - and driven as it was intended to be used; given the car's age, I suggest that will be difficult to achieve - sorry!

Notwithstanding the gloom and doom, I'm sorry that your first experience of Porsche has not been all that you expected it to be.

Del

 

[Guest]

I think that the 'pretty comprehensive history' bit won't help.

If it had full OPC service history, then you may have had more luck.

I bought my Oct '02 car off Christopher Neil (non-OPC) with a full Porsche service history but, because they serviced it before I collected it, when I found out that the car had a leaking rear seal at 35k miles, Porsche wouldn't help because they said that Neil's may have used no-OP parts in the service.

Any excuse to bail out of any possible responsibilty will likely be made.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for all your replies, I agree with you all I have been stupid but as the title states I was blinded by the brand that I have always loved and admired. The car is in mint condition and the engine sounded beautiful with no signs of oil leaks andit drove like it was new with no rattles. The car has full OPC history but the last service was carried out in 2004 and the car has only covered 2000 miles since. I luckily did buy the car from a close friend so the car was known to me. He has subsequently offered to help with the repair cost so things are not perhaps so bad. I still intend to sell it when it is repaired, I wont be buying another Porshe I will be returning to a BMW.

 

[Delbox]

Ian,

One bad apple doesn't spoil the harvest!

By the way, I've had problems with used and new BMWs supplied through main dealers; so that brand has its problems too. Don't be put off Porsche; buy the right car - having done the right things beforehand. Sadly, as you say, you were blinded by the brand - and trusted a friend.

Once the car is repaired - keep it; I'm sure that you'll have years of fun.

Del

 

[Fred Hindle]

Ian,
Look at it this way, once the engine is repaired you will have a car that will be 'sorted'.
May I suggest that you are not to quick to sell the car but see how you feel about it after a couple of months at least. Plus the fact coming up to Christmas isn't the best time to be selling a car unless going for part exchange with a dealer.
Cheers.

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: ikdavis

All the OPC is interested in doing is repairing the car at a cost of 7000.00 and are completely not interested in persueing any claim for this failure.

I will never buy another Porsche as long as I live
I Davis

Have you considered having the repair work done by one of the many excellent "Specialists" out there. It must surely be a more cost effective route to take especially as you are not even keeping the car once it's running again [&o]

On the other hand I am on my 5th Boxster since 1996 intoduction and can't find anything more suited to my needs or better built for the money [8D]

 

[edgiee]

Talking about BMW's, I was out in the front garden this summer and a break-down truck turned up a couple of doors down the road. Being curious I went out and watched what was going on. A BMW 3 series was being loaded onto the back of the truck. I got talking to the chap loading the Beamer and he said he'd been called out because the car wouldn't start. He said that a large part of his work involved picking up broken down BMW's. "They're rubbish these days," he said. Then he looked over at my car and said, "Keep your Porsche, mate."

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

I agree with Daro. If the engine was running normally when you took it in, it would be much cheaper to have it rebuilt by a specialist than to get the OPC to replace it. If you had had a failure it might be a different story, but if everything is intact you should consider a rebuild - especially on a 29000 miler. Try Hartech or Autofarm, who specialise in this - Hartech, in particular, have some very cost-effective solutions.

 

[John Ware]

Had a dodgy BMW in the past too. Use a decent specialist rather than the OPC, particularly as your car is an older one. As the owner of a six and half year old 996, I wouldn't touch an OPC with a bargepole and if the engine goes bang, I'll probably end up at Autofarm (who by all accounts will repair the engine and rebuild it to an extent that it will be unlikely to go wrong the same way again!). Hope I don't need to find out.

Recent cars (generally, not just Porsche) don't seem to be as well built as they were in the past. That said, I have a 2000 Audi A6 2.5TDi with 120k miles on the clock which is doing a great impression of being bombproof. Will probably drop a new engine in it at 250k. []

This page may be of some use.

Never had any dealings with Autofarm personally but I'm sure others here will have words to say one way or the other.

 

[Black80XSA]

I assume from your description that the engine is out and in bits - suggest you find out from the OPC the cost so far, and the cost to put it back together and in the car. Then talk to Autofarm about a replacement engine (in exchange) - which will have all the mods done to the intermediate shaft bearing etc to bring it to the most modern spec.

It might be a bit cheaper than buying a rebuilt or exchange unit from the OPC

 

[Mark Elder]

I feel very sorry for you - that's a real bad bit of luck.

Does not seem totally unknown that these engines go in this way. Like other have already said - an indy is likely to be a much more cost effective route to sort this.

And then no point in selling immediately.

 

[GOOFY]

I agree with above - may be better to get someone like Autofarm to rebuild. At the same time you could upgrade engine - extra cc's and stronger shaft - and more importantly get a warranty. This (I am told) will give you more reliable "oomph" and perhaps enjoy your Porsche before you sell it on.

 

[Guest]

I delivered the car by trailer to Autofarm yesterday and after speaking to Nick Fulljames the engine shop Manager who I must add has a pretty hefty CV, they are going to fit the latest updated shaft which they modify to fit. I am going to keep the car after the rebuild. Autofarm have been brilliant in their approch and have done everything they can to help me and they have estimated 1/2 the cost of the OPC. I have to wait now for the repairs to be done. I feel a whole lot better about the car now than I did last week. I will update on progress.

Thanks everyone for your good advice and help.

Ian

 

[Dylan1]

hope all goes well and you can start enjoying the car ,like the rest of us[]

 

[912UK]

another sad tale. It's getting boring reading the same thing week after week. Porsche don't seam to mind this bad reputation that they are growing.. infact they seam good at fueling it.

It's that old saying check it out before you buy but we all take on board Service History and other things and go with what we feel. It seams you have lost out there. I am sorry to hear that. We too had a Friday BMW and I in the end sorted that out and it was covered under the warantee but they did nothing to pay us back once I fixed it. So guess what we will never buy another BMW EVER.. so these companines do have to think the damage they are doing is not just for the next 5 years it's for life!!

 

[daro911]

ORIGINAL: 912UK

It's getting boring reading the same thing week after week. Porsche don't seam to mind this bad reputation that they are growing.. infact they seam good at fueling it.

Looks like it's only the tiny minority in the know as these figures paint a completely different story [&o]

Luxury carmaker Porsche saw its revenues rise 15% from August to November, driven by strong sales.

The German firm said its sales for the first four months of its financial year increased to 2.36bn euros ($3.5bn; £1.7bn) from 2.05bn euros last year.

Sale volumes at the company, best known for its 911 model, rose 18% to 30,700.

A recent law change means Porsche is able to up its stake in Volkswagen from 31%. Porsche has yet to commit, but many expect a takeover bid next year.

Porsche's four wheel drive Cayenne model enjoyed the biggest increase in sales during the four months, rising 76% from a year earlier to 13,400 vehicles.

Sales of the 911 were up only 3% to 10,800 cars, while those of the cheaper Boxster convertible fell by 17% to 6,500 units.

Porsche now expects total sales for its current fiscal year to be around the same level as the last, when it sold 97,513 vehicles.

 

[912UK]

I can see the rise in 4x4 sales in the middle east and America that's a cert for sure interesting boxsters are down.. would have thought the 911 would be down over the boxster..

Well they are making more money now so perhaps they could sort out problems that they tried to sweep under the carpet..prob their best advert yet if they fixed them!! []

 

[berty987]

Inermediate shaft failures are a more common ocurrence than many would have you beleive. They seem to fall into two categeories, those with bearing failure and those with shaft failure. Neither of the failures can be predicted or prevented and Porsche are unwiling to give any comment on the root cause. These issues seem to plague the M96 engine found in the 986, 996 and 987, 997 with the exception of the 3.6 l unit used in the Turbo and GT3 (these have a different bottom end). There appears to be a design weakness in the bottom end and the selection of materials for the bearing and intermediate shaft in the M96 unit. I have seen and heard of occurrences of intermediate shaft failure in 987, and 997 engines , though only time will tell if porsche's current manufacture of engine also possess the weakness. The common trend suggests that an interediate shaft failure will show itself in a mileage up to 45,000 , though typically it occurs around the 30 K mark. The advice therefore is to consider an extended warranty or be prepared for a potential engine rebuild on any 986, 996, 997, 987 approaching 30 k miles. In reality the number of porsches with this mileage is relatively low , as we tend to drive these cars less than the average family saloon. As a result , its difficult to judge what percentage of M96 engines exhibit this problem , or indeed ever will.
I agree that it is disappointing for Porsche , that have built their reputation on reliability , to have such a potentially huge reliability issue of such a significant measure. Most people would accept or expect suspension or electrics to be a problem , but not the engine , the very soul of the car , especially when the failure is catastrophic. Checking the car over , cannot and will not highlight this problem , so it comes down to your acceptance of risk and consequence. In most cases , if the car is shown to have been properly maintained Porsche GB usually try to reduce the severity of the cost to the customer , but never admit to liability. I would suggest that a strongly wordrd letter to Porsche GB would be the first approach , following a quotation from an independant specialist for repair. I would not consider a used engine as a suitable course of action unless looking to sell on immediately at a much reduced market value.
I think it would be woth this club considering asking porsche GB for an official statement on intermediate shaft and bearing failures , as with each occurrence the brand image takes a blow. An indication of model units affected, chassis number or engine number ranges , or an explanation of how the failure occurs would help restore brand confidence. In the meantime personally, I would not consider purchasing a new or used porsche without a warranty unless it was a GT3 or Turbo , purely on the basis of this issue. Ultimately , I do not think I would buy a 997, 987, 986, 996 until this issue is officially recognised and resolved.