Supercharging the 944?!
- Thread starter Will1981
- Start date
edh
New member
Well 8k might be a little ambitious...
It would still make some good numbers approaching 7k, and the throttle response would be much improved. How far can you push the standard bottom end?
As for drivability - isn't that what modern engine management systems give you? - My Mk1 Fiesta track car with a ~150hp crossflow / twin 45's wasn't the nicest car to drive, with a huge hole in the powerband before everything started working together, but things have moved on a tad..
It would still make some good numbers approaching 7k, and the throttle response would be much improved. How far can you push the standard bottom end?
As for drivability - isn't that what modern engine management systems give you? - My Mk1 Fiesta track car with a ~150hp crossflow / twin 45's wasn't the nicest car to drive, with a huge hole in the powerband before everything started working together, but things have moved on a tad..
I rekon the 944 could be made to rev to 8k. My cousin tunes race cosworth engines and told me he once tuned a 944 Turbo to 500hp with an 8K rpm limit. I don't suspect he has any reason to lie, he certainly new how to go about building a 944 engine and new all the issues.
Have you seen the ~400hp NA 944 engine on rennlist?
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/628347-how-to-get-more-power-out-of-na-looking-for-400hp.html
Have you seen the ~400hp NA 944 engine on rennlist?
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/628347-how-to-get-more-power-out-of-na-looking-for-400hp.html
ORIGINAL: edh
yes - there's a picture of it earlier in the thread []
I bet Will would be more than happy with 300hp..
Oops! I agree 300hp would be a fantastic result in a 944.
Incidently I will be hitting the dyno this weekend to see how far I can get really pushing the 2.5 engine on high octance fuel with a de-restricted intake!
No not the turbo unfortunately, will be the lux. I will only be using a pump gas, so 97-99 ron depending on what I come across. The turbo is up and running but its smoking a lot and I suspect the turbo is leaking oil into the exhaust. So that has put a bit of a hold on things, however I will be on it on Sunday, I need to re-index the torsion bars to level out the rear suspension after that I am tempted to just drive it and see if it sorts itself out, its not been under any load yet.
scam75
Well-known member
My car was honking for about 10 miles after my rebuild. That was a trashed turbo and simultaneous HG failure. We thought at first that the rebuilt turbo was not right and the smoke got worse under boost. With hindsight it was just clearing the crud quicker on boost!
All good now except a slightly sticking OPR valve, gonna fix that tomorrow.
Good luck with yours.
Stuart
All good now except a slightly sticking OPR valve, gonna fix that tomorrow.
Good luck with yours.
Stuart
Jonny944CS
New member
For me the best output measure of a good road car engine should be torque spread over the users operating range. For natural aspiration it comes down to cost (for sure!) and just as significantly how much torque you are willing to sacrifice at low rpm.
No amount of clever engine management can significantly influence the physical combustion limits of the engine (over Motronic - comparison with Carbs is different). Assuming fixed cam timing and inlet manifold runners; give or take small percentage changes, you are really limited to moving the torque curve up and down the rev range of the engine.
As an extreme example, take a 3L V10 from an early 2000's F1 engine. Say it produces around 750hp @ 18000rpm.
- The torque output at this speed is 295Nm "" just slightly less than a 968 engine at 4100rpm!
- Between 8k and 12k rpm the torque output has dropped to 2.5 Lux levels @ ~200Nm.
- At the 4k (peak torque speed of the 968 engine) the F1 engine is producing the same torque as 1 single cylinder of the 968 engine. []
Junk the 968 manifold and VVT, fit throttle bodies etc and you may see another 30-40 reliable bhp without major engine surgery, if you are lucky. But you will loose a significant chunk in the lower rpm range.
No amount of clever engine management can significantly influence the physical combustion limits of the engine (over Motronic - comparison with Carbs is different). Assuming fixed cam timing and inlet manifold runners; give or take small percentage changes, you are really limited to moving the torque curve up and down the rev range of the engine.
As an extreme example, take a 3L V10 from an early 2000's F1 engine. Say it produces around 750hp @ 18000rpm.
- The torque output at this speed is 295Nm "" just slightly less than a 968 engine at 4100rpm!
- Between 8k and 12k rpm the torque output has dropped to 2.5 Lux levels @ ~200Nm.
- At the 4k (peak torque speed of the 968 engine) the F1 engine is producing the same torque as 1 single cylinder of the 968 engine. [
]Junk the 968 manifold and VVT, fit throttle bodies etc and you may see another 30-40 reliable bhp without major engine surgery, if you are lucky. But you will loose a significant chunk in the lower rpm range.
Jonny944CS
New member
Fair point. Just a lame excuse on my part to shoehorn-in another F1 analogy [&:] ...
I plumped for low weight, less braking and riding a push bike during the week.
My 8v na feels like it has 300hp/tonne (in my tiny mind).
I plumped for low weight, less braking and riding a push bike during the week.
My 8v na feels like it has 300hp/tonne (in my tiny mind).
edh
New member
ph sportscars used to run (maybe they still do) some hyundai loan cars - which they used topick up for a few hundred quid from the auctions. They were so horrible that when you picked up your 944 it always felt wonderful
I'm going for low weight as well - but wouldn't mind a bit more power
I'm going for low weight as well - but wouldn't mind a bit more power
Jonny944CS
New member
My plan falls down on dry, busy track days with long straights.
I believe they have turbocharged 4 valve per cylinder heads, and the reason they used the 8v head in the 968Turbo was for ease -it was a 944 turbo head with a different turbo, and because of the class they wanted to race in - They could hit the power cap with 8 valves.
tony
That's interesting Tony.I never really thought about it like that before.I want a good driveable n/a road and a wee bit of track action.If I go down the throttle boddy route I would be happy with anything from 250 -300 bhp.Maybe lifting the red line a bit ( 500rpm).
chrisflorey
New member
Just come across this thread, I am also interested in doing this . My company specialises in Timing pulleys, we have made many supercharger pulleys before and also have 3d cnc milling at our place .
I am very interested in doing this to my lux if the OP Wants to drop me a Pm []
I am very interested in doing this to my lux if the OP Wants to drop me a Pm [
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