Suspension Recommendations '91 Turbo
- Thread starter JSHammond
- Start date
TTM
Well-known member
In terms of efficiency and feel on a clean surface the KW V3 are in my experience rubbish compared with the Bilstein of say the popular H&R kit. I ran Moton 3-ways before the KW and they were light years ahead of anything else I had driven in any other car, including some very expensive moderns. Thankfully they were on the car when I bought it, and got quite a bit more cash than needed when I sold them to fund the KW.
However, the KW V3 remain the best compromise I was able to find for the wide variety of roads, often in very poor condition, I sadly have to drive on at times. Trying to imagine carrying some speed on these roads with the Bilstein I am pretty sure many bolts and nuts in the car would break off.
The suppleness of the KW, at the cost of losing some absolute feel, is what makes them enjoyable to me. I have them set relatively soft, yet considering how much suspension travel I get I find the car remarkably controllable at speed, which I think shows where these shocks are remarkable, and where Koni yellows would miserably perform. The Bilstein would probably would not perform at all since they seem to work only as stiff shocks.
However, the KW V3 remain the best compromise I was able to find for the wide variety of roads, often in very poor condition, I sadly have to drive on at times. Trying to imagine carrying some speed on these roads with the Bilstein I am pretty sure many bolts and nuts in the car would break off.
The suppleness of the KW, at the cost of losing some absolute feel, is what makes them enjoyable to me. I have them set relatively soft, yet considering how much suspension travel I get I find the car remarkably controllable at speed, which I think shows where these shocks are remarkable, and where Koni yellows would miserably perform. The Bilstein would probably would not perform at all since they seem to work only as stiff shocks.
Neil Haughey
New member
Mark is right on the money about setup. My car never quite felt right or gave me the confidence to push it full hard on track since the race car build, my old track day setup from years ago was but never the race car, the clincher for me was when Ben Demetriou drove it and struggled with it just as much as I had. Earlier this year Andy Duncan (NineX) got stuck into geo and corner weighting with gusto, there was adjusters that had never been off it seems as two of them in the rear broke and had to be replaced. In total he weighed the car 4 times till he was happy he had nailed the setup and get the cross weights in real close (corner weighting is about matching cross comparisons so you get even weight transfer when cornering). My god the transformation was amazing, I never got the car over about 1.2g before but managed 1.5g at 55mph and 1.63g and 25mph this summer on the Dunlops. Absolutely gutting my back injury put me out from the racing but I am relishing a season of track afternoons and evenings next year in her. It also makes a massive difference to how much one enjoys the car, knowing you can really throw it around without the compromise of having to hold back a bit because you fear for the car biting your arse off.
Absolutely nothing is more important than getting the setup and corner weights nailed. Nothing.
Absolutely nothing is more important than getting the setup and corner weights nailed. Nothing.
MartinRS2K
Active member
Totally agree about setup and corner weighting. I haven't had my 944's done yet but I got my 964 Jubi set up this year after fitting Bilstein B6 dampers with H&R Green Springs (actually Purple but they are called Greens). Also had new bottom plates fitted and genuine Porsche Top Mounts.
Then the car was set up and corner weighted and the difference was amazing [
]
Then the car was set up and corner weighted and the difference was amazing [
]Right I'm dragging this one up again, as the sun has come out so it's about time my 951 came out to play but the stock Koni's are screwed so it desperately needs refreshing and upgrading so the car is track ready.
As stated earlier in this thread I had settled on the V3's as I know they really do offer the best of both worlds, but I'm finding it hard to stomach the cost of £1500-1600 they currently cost even when considering a favourable Euro rate at the moment. I could stretch to them, but I am considering a slightly left field custom set up at less than half the cost without the potential drawbacks of the similarly priced Spax and Gaz coilover kits...
https://944tech.wordpress.com/2014/02/12/how-to-a-proper-budget-944-rear-coilover/
Due to the exchange rate a set of Bilstein B6 dampers can be bought for around £380 delivered from Germany at the moment, add in a set of coilover sleeves and my own choice of spring rates and I reckon I can build up a full set of Bilstein damped coilovers for less than £700. The fabrication/engineering side of this is not an issue for me and I have everything I need at my disposal. I already have a set of knackered front M474 Koni's and a set of mk2 golf strut casings to chop up to make the fronts. Overall it wouldn't take much work to do and should be a nice set up; sure it won't be quite as good as the KW's but I reckon it should be 90% of the way there...
I'm thinking of either a Fr 300lb / R 250lb or Fr 250lb / 200lb spring rate set up (retaining the rear bars of course).
Anyone on here running the Bilstein B6 dampers? If so how do you find them? My research suggests they should be more than capable at damping the spring rates I mention above...
Or should I stop being such a tight ass and just get out my credit card!?...
As stated earlier in this thread I had settled on the V3's as I know they really do offer the best of both worlds, but I'm finding it hard to stomach the cost of £1500-1600 they currently cost even when considering a favourable Euro rate at the moment. I could stretch to them, but I am considering a slightly left field custom set up at less than half the cost without the potential drawbacks of the similarly priced Spax and Gaz coilover kits...
https://944tech.wordpress.com/2014/02/12/how-to-a-proper-budget-944-rear-coilover/
Due to the exchange rate a set of Bilstein B6 dampers can be bought for around £380 delivered from Germany at the moment, add in a set of coilover sleeves and my own choice of spring rates and I reckon I can build up a full set of Bilstein damped coilovers for less than £700. The fabrication/engineering side of this is not an issue for me and I have everything I need at my disposal. I already have a set of knackered front M474 Koni's and a set of mk2 golf strut casings to chop up to make the fronts. Overall it wouldn't take much work to do and should be a nice set up; sure it won't be quite as good as the KW's but I reckon it should be 90% of the way there...
I'm thinking of either a Fr 300lb / R 250lb or Fr 250lb / 200lb spring rate set up (retaining the rear bars of course).
Anyone on here running the Bilstein B6 dampers? If so how do you find them? My research suggests they should be more than capable at damping the spring rates I mention above...
Or should I stop being such a tight ass and just get out my credit card!?...
edh
New member
Spring rates are a bit low for tracks rich - are you thinking this is more for road use? How are you fitting springs to the rear? Or are you just quoting the rates for the torsion bars?
I think someone in the uk is doing the machining to fit bilsteins into front struts now - martinrs2k?
Not driven a 944 with bilsteins but I don't think you can go wrong with them
I think someone in the uk is doing the machining to fit bilsteins into front struts now - martinrs2k?
Not driven a 944 with bilsteins but I don't think you can go wrong with them
edh
New member
Ah yes... I didn't look at the link.. [] never seen that mod before - hope that snap ring is strong enough..
FWIW, KW v3 springs are 60Nm F, 50NM rear - approx. 342/285 Lb I think and they are fine on the road, so your 300/250 is not far off
I'm now running 500/400 and I'd say they are a bit too stiff for a road car.
] never seen that mod before - hope that snap ring is strong enough..FWIW, KW v3 springs are 60Nm F, 50NM rear - approx. 342/285 Lb I think and they are fine on the road, so your 300/250 is not far off
I'm now running 500/400 and I'd say they are a bit too stiff for a road car.
Thanks Ed that's useful to know. The snap ring thing is a conventional set up for Bilstein dampers with springs; the bits are actually made by Bilstein for the application. Lots of kit cars and Lotus use them...
I'm pretty keen to give this a go as it may well prove to be a cost effective way to get a decent set up, something us 944 owners are presently lacking given the price increases to the V3's!
Springs are reasonably cheap so I can always play around with rates...
I'm pretty keen to give this a go as it may well prove to be a cost effective way to get a decent set up, something us 944 owners are presently lacking given the price increases to the V3's!
Springs are reasonably cheap so I can always play around with rates...
Monkeythree
New member
I think machining and welding on a platform for the threaded collar would be a better solution than the snap ring?? Don't like the idea of machining into the body of the damper and then putting half of the load right through that point.
Monkeythree that's Bilstein's own design; the spring platform can't go anywhere as the face loading the snap ring is tapered so it exerts force into the damper body keeping the ring in place. It's not going any where! (I'm an engineer BTW). Lots of suspension designs use this principle for spring platforms ;-)
So after MUCH deliberation and research I've decided to press on with the Bilstein's. A set of B6's have been ordered from the fartherland for a very reasonable £355 (approx) due to the strong pound. I'm currently sourcing all the other bits, but I hope to have this lot assembled in time for a ring trip at the end of May!.. I'll report back in a new thread once I've made some progress...
Richard
Richard
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