Suspension Set up Centre Gravity/De-CAT

[davidcross]

Anyone had a new set up at Centre Gravity for a 993?? ive got a C4 that must be on original shocks, is a 15yr old car thats done 73k miles. Drove a friends 964 C2 thats just had full geometry set up. Out handled my car easily and was a pleasure to drive. Also how about a de-cat? Sound different? added performance?? waste of cash??? Really appreciate thoughts

 

[nfearn]

I have heard a lot of good reports about Centre Gravity and no adverse ones, so I think they're a fairly safe bet for geometry.

That said, I would suggest fitting new dampers and ensuring that the suspension components are in good condition before bothering to have the geometry set up properly. I've just ordered a set of Koni FSDs from Carnewal and will report back once they're fitted and the suspension's set up properly.

My C2 has 67K miles on it and the dampers are well past their best (choppy ride, lack of body control, car doesn't develop a proper "set" under power). They would likely pass an MOT but that's about it...

Nick

 

[Shane Hodges]

I used Chris at CG a few years ago for new shocks + full geo including corner weighting. His customer service was exceptional and there was no question he couldn't answer for me.

I discovered a few interesting things too such as my kinematic toe hadn't been touched for years (despite the geo having previously been done at a reputable specialist) and the rear shocks still being OK despite 60k miles (the fronts were shot). The cars handling was exceptional afterwards.

You have nothing to loose by giving him a call.

 

[davidcross]

Many tks. Chris is the guy I've been told to speak too who will check the shocks and replace when necessary. Whilst there can I get a sports cat fitted and wud there be much upside in having it fitted?? I'm thinking throatier sound and better performance. I already have a motorsound airbox fitted. Tks

 

[cristel993]

I'm booked into Centre Gravity towards the end of August. Had Bilstein HDs from Carnewal fitted in March this year, ensuring I bought the ones with the extra 6mm of thread on the front dampers. Gert at Carnewal will advise you on this. What springs do you have on your car? I have an M030 chassis from the factory, which came with thicker anti-roll bars, turbo drop links and stiffer M030 springs.

This set up, with the Bilstein HDs has utterly transformed the handling of the car and thats before visiting Centre Gravity. Gert told me that Bilstein HDs plus M030 springs are just about perfect for fast road use and occasional trips to the track, not that I track mine. Am sure that Chris will advise you on the best route to take!

A full de-cat will be insanely loud and could result in a lot of resonance/droning. In terms of cats, I've done a fair bit of research and I've received good feedback regarding Dansk cats/mufflers. I've ordered a single piece stainless steel Dansk 100 cell cat (which looks the same as the standard cat) and stainless steel 380S mufflers from Type911. Total cost is around £1300 including VAT and postage. Will let you know how it all sounds/performs once fitted after 17th August. Once the cat and mufflers are fitted I'm having the car re-mapped my Wayne Schofield at Chipwizards in Rochdale, who is by all accounts the best for re-mapping 911s, 993s included. He usually gets 300bhp (have seen the dyno charts) from a normally aspirated 993, up from 272/285bhp and that's without a 100 cell cat.

The motorsound airbox/sports mufflers won't add any extra hp but a 100 cell cat will.

 

[davidcross]

Many tks Sam. I have no idea what current suspension set up i have as ive only had the car a few months and im not very good with these things.Ive toyed with the idea of switching to a turbo but i think the difference im really looking for is the better handling. Naturally i dont want to shell out 2 grand and notice nothing new, there has to be some serious upside for that kind of investment on the car although i gather the guy there will give me an honest assesment of the current state of play without having my eyes out. I dont want a car that sounds insanely loud and "chavvy" TBH but im keen to "enhance" what i have and certainly have the handling set up as it should be. Maybe i should have said Sports Cat as opposed De Cat. Can i fit a 100 cell cat and still have the motorsound airbox?

 

[mf993]

ORIGINAL: davidcross

Anyone had a new set up at Centre Gravity for a 993?? ive got a C4 that must be on original shocks, is a 15yr old car thats done 73k miles. Drove a friends 964 C2 thats just had full geometry set up. Out handled my car easily and was a pleasure to drive. Also how about a de-cat? Sound different? added performance?? waste of cash??? Really appreciate thoughts

I took my 993C2 (78K miles, bog standard original and probably untouched suspension i.e. Munroe dampers) to Chris end of January with uneven front tyre wear. During the test drive, he flagged up issues with instability on bumpy road (I naively thought they all felt like that!) and excessive under-steer on right turns (explained some issues I had during track-days). After 3 hours of geometry setting (and no new parts - notably in his opinion the dampers still had plenty of life left in them), the handing of the car was transformed (all for about 300 pounds). 6K miles on (road trip to Spain and two track-days) and a new set of tyres, I'm delighted with the car's handling (the instability and under-steer are improved as expected plus the braking stability is better) I have complete confidence in Chris's expertise and will go out of my way to use his services again (I'm not related or on commission).

Martin

 

[davidcross]

Great, i also want the car lowered a few mil as i want to keep the car on 17" wheels but it to sit lower

 

[Pickled Piper]

Hi Chris worked on my BMW. I haven't got round to taking my 993 to him yet.

My advice is to explain to Chris in your own words exactly what you want the car to do in terms of behaviour and also describe any issues that you have with the car. Chris is very capable of translating this into geometry settings, he will also give you a very honest assessment of what needs changing in terms of parts. He will recommend, supply and fit any parts that may be required. It may be worth chatting on the phone to him prior to your appointment so that he can get any parts in ahead of time.

Don't worry you are in safe hands.

pp

 

[davidcross]

As a Follow up I popped into JZM today and spoke with Jonas. Porsche has surplus upgraded 993 shocks at £500 a set that sit 10mm lower all round and with complete geometry set up will cost me circa £1250 give or take. I think this seems the perfect solution and as Jonus said will transform the car which is what I'm after. Anyone else done this?!

 

[davidcross]

I'm guessing the suspension set up will b the same if done at JZM using Porsche parts rather than after market given the geometry set up

 

[jmspear]

David, I have experimented with different exhaust set ups as follows:

standard exhaust
standard cat with RSR (gert carenewal) mufflers (basically gutted mufflers)
full Cargraphic NGT 200 cell system including sport boxes and big bore headers
Cargraphic NGT as above but with std headers

and I currently run standard headers, std boxes and dansk decat pipes and the sound is by far the best, have had many compliments on how it sounds and many requests on the set up, it sounds very throaty (i have been told sounds more lkike v8 than flat 6, no drone or resonance at all, sound test between 100db and 105 db depending on atmospheric conditions and circuit. I wouldn't change it now.

In terms of power, I have 9m billet head conversion so not really representative, butt dyno says I lost a little low down torque but gained some top end. But pretty marginal and on butt dyno, you can forget any real power gains from the exhaust no matter which system, unless you fit a big bore header when you will lose power unless you go throttle bodies mated with the 9m heads (or equivalent)

Hope that helps

John

It is definitely the way to go

 

[Shane Hodges]

David, I have not changed my exhaust so can't comment on this I'm afraid.

Re the JZ suggestion, I would call Chris and discuss it with him.

 

[dommorton]

ORIGINAL: jmspear

David, I have experimented with different exhaust set ups as follows:

standard exhaust
standard cat with RSR (gert carenewal) mufflers (basically gutted mufflers)
full Cargraphic NGT 200 cell system including sport boxes and big bore headers
Cargraphic NGT as above but with std headers

and I currently run standard headers, std boxes and dansk decat pipes

John

Do you have to mess about putting the cats back on for MOT's though?

 

[davidcross]

Many tks John and Shane. From what u say John I'm thinking that there's little chance of me getting any real power gains although I'd like to get the car dyno'd to see exactly it performs to the 272 hp it's supposed to be so it's just the additional sound although I still want it to sound like an aircooled 911 so I'm going to have to give this some thought. With regards the suspension set up at JZM it will be the full MO30 kit followed by the geometry adjustment that I'll b going for. My intention isn't to use the car for track days just for hurtling through country lanes etc and have a firmer ride with a far more responsive handling car. If there was something that would improve low down torque i'd seriously
look at that as I'm not that fussed about +100 mph. I'd still b intereseted to hear about anyone elses experiences with MO30 suspension and geometry set up at JZM tks.

 

[Super_Marv]

IIRC, Chris at Center Gravity highly recommends Bilstein HDs with H&R progressive springs on the 993. Sensational round corners and the ride remains compliant too!

 

[davidcross]

Ok and how about ride height as I definately want the car to sit close the the arches rather than the inch and a half gap I have at present. Remembering of course I have 17" wheels ??

 

[davidcross]

not that i want one that touches the rear tyres

 

[Black80XSA]

I remember when Paul took his 964 to Chris with new suspension to fit they actually raised the ride height from its previous settings. All depends what you are starting with, and i'm sure chirs will balance your requirements of lower ride height to hi selection of optimum configurations.

 

[davidcross]

I left another message y"day but still waiting fir a call back. Wanna get it book in