Suspension Upgrade for 944 S2

[herbie75]

Chaps, thanks for all the useful info. I put in a call to exeter porsche yesterday. The M474 enquiry met with quite a bit of head scratching from them and i'm waiting a call back. Neil - as you say they simply may not be available anymore....

I've pretty much made up my mind go with konis all round as Oli suggested, with new bushes and either 968CS springs on the front or the aforementioned springs from porscheshop (subject to finding out the spring rating). Although I will wait and see what the boys in Exeter can offer first. Not going to mess around with the torsion bar as this is big cash and simply not necessary for what i will use the car for.

 

[herbie75]

Further update - Porsche Exeter have said that the price of M030 kit has rocketted and now the package is circa £3000 plus VAT [&:]. They even suggested I go with the konis!!

They can do the 698 Springs, ARBs and bushes though for a reasonable price. Springs for example are £100 plus VAT.

The main question I need answering is whether the adjustment that needs to be made to the fronts to take the koni insert (I am told the front shocks will need to be cut to take the inserts) will prevent me from fitting the 968Cs springs. I am sure this won't be the case but it is always better to check first.

 

[zcacogp]

Herbie,

Can't answer the question about 968 springs directly, but given that the fitting of the Koni fronts ends up with something that is almost identical to the original strut then I can't think it won't work. The spring platforms are unchanged and are the same distance apart, so I'd be very susprised if the 968 springs don't fit. (The original S2 springs fit back on fine.)

ETA: What bushes are you changing? I used Powerflex stuff for both front and rear ARB mounts (six bushes in all IIRC.)

Oli.

 

[herbie75]

Oli - these are the prices back from Porsche Exeter:

968CS FRONT SPRINGS £87.68
968 FRONT M030 ROLL BAR £114.40
BUSHES FOR ABOVE £10.95 (PAIR)
BUSHES FOR ABOVE £10.95 (PAIR)
WASHERS FOR ABOVE £0.74 (PAIR)
968 REAR M030 ROLL BAR FOR MANUAL TRANSMISSION £64.69
BUSHES FOR ABOVE £4.59 (PAIR)

The bushes are 968 although i may go with powerflex ones as i assume they may be stiffer.

I'm sure you are right on the 968CS springs, i can't see why they wouldn't fit.

 

[stevep2000]

Herbie, are those spring prices each or per pair? Presume it's all plus VAT?
Would love to get my suspension all freshened up.....

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: herbie75

Further update - Porsche Exeter have said that the price of M030 kit has rocketted and now the package is circa £3000 plus VAT [&:].

Woohoo - that should add some S/H value to mine when I fit my KW's [] (sorry I know that's not what you want to hear)

Them's good prices on the ARB's [8D] I personally would stick with standard bushes as they will be infinitely better than the old worn out ones and less likely to squeak as Powerflex occasionally do

 

[herbie75]

Steve - I am pretty sure that is for the pair, but i have emailed marc at Exeter just to check. Prices are all exclusive of VAT

Diver - on the bushes, I'd rather go with the 968 ones, as you say just getting new ones in there should make a big difference.

 

[herbie75]

Update - the 968CS springs are £87.68 plus VAT for the pair. The 968 bushes are also
polyurethane so think i'll go with these over the powerflex.

Looks like I'm finally getting an idea of the package i want to put together! []

 

[richthomas]

I can't believe the prices of the M474 konis - looks like I should have asked more for the car when I sold it, almost worth more that I got for the whole thing! They were about £250 a corner for fronts, £70 each for M030 rears! 968cs springs were about the same as you have been quoted. You may want to do 968 front wishbone eccentric (rear mount to the car) bushes too - will help the car track better, although I didn't notice much of an improvement. About £40 each, or they were!

 

[nick3814]

So am I right in thinking I could just remove the front springs, replace them with 968cs ones and this would give me a lower front end, no other mods needed? []

Theres a company here selling 968 lowering springs on Ebay but it states its for 4 springs do they have 4 springs??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Porsche-968-30mm-lowering-springs-80-2304_W0QQitemZ290143668320QQihZ019QQcategoryZ40192QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

 

[herbie75]

help needed - my car is at RGA porsche vauxhall at present and they have just told me it is impossible to fit the koni inserts to the boge front struts. I know that some adjustment (chopping) needs to take place, but can someone explain in more detail what needs to be done. Or even better still can anyone tell me of a garage where they had this work done as it doesn't inspire much confidence being told this when other members have done it to their 944 S2's.

Many thanks for any assistance.

 

[Diver944]

You cannot just fit them to the shock as it stands. They are aftermarket parts and the shock has to be cut in half so they can fit inside the old sealed unit.

Paragon has a good guide with pictures here:

http://www.tech-session.com/kb/index.php?article=36

It is not a common practice so most Indies will probably not know about them unless they have been asked to do one before.

 

[herbie75]

Diver - thank you very much for the link, it is very useful and I have sent onto Bob at RGA. Like you say the konis tend to be fitted by people at home rather than Indies so I know I may actually struggle to find a garage that has carried out the work.

The extra work involved may also start to mean that the koni option no longer has such a price differential compared to the KW as I'm not doing the work myself. Has anyone had the KW option fitted who can let me know the price for the whole package?

 

[zcacogp]

Herbie,

The time taken to cut-'n-shut the shocks is not great. I spent about an hour doing mine - both of them - and that was with the hassle of making a jig up to do them very accurately. In retrospect, this was over-engineering, and you could do them in around 15 minutes a side with a large drill and an angle grinder.

I wouldn't let this minor hitch put you off the Konis, unless the cost of the extra work really is huge. (But if they are charging you more than an hour extra for it, it's overkill!) I'm slightly surprised that RGA is foxed by them to be honest - RGA are meant to deal with a lot of 944's, and the Koni option is a popular one.

I'd be talking to Northway about the KW price - I think they are the preferred installer for such loveliness.


Oli.

 

[herbie75]

Oli,

thanks for the response, having looked at the guide provided by Diver it seems fairly simple and hopefully RGA will agree![]

I checked the "all in" price from Promax for the KW's and got a very thorough response from Andy:

"The Price for the KW V3 kit is £1350 inc vat - its come down in price! Typically we say budget £2000 for the whole job, that's parts fitting, vat
etc. The reason for this is that when we remove the beam axle to re index the torsion bars to lower the car, often the rear mounts can fall apart, some
cars need all four some don't - luck of the draw. When the beam is off we lubricate all the adjusting points so the geo can be done easily afterwards.
Its also a time to consider the fuel lines - they rot under the axle, and if the axle is off, replacement is a doddle! To summarise, £2k includes the KW kit, labour, full geo setup - we can adjust the settings of the geo and KW to suit your driving needs - we have fitted many of these kits so are very tuned into understanding what you
need. If you want to see a kit I always have one in stock, and if you need a test drive we have a demo 944 Turbo with the kit fitted - so you can feel what
you are getting so you can decide if its right for you!"

So this is the more expensive alternative which is probabaly beyond what i need from the car or want to spend, but useful to know nonetheless.

 

[zcacogp]

Herbie,

Promax not Northway! Sorry - I misled you.

That is interesting tho'. Thanks. (Surprised that the cost of the kit has come down!) £2k is a LOT for a suspension package, and I am remembering afresh why I didn't go that route. I wodner why they are re-indexing the rear beam - that's a big job, and if it is strictly necessary for the fitting then it takes it a little way beyond my DIY abilities.

Ho hum. Hope it all goes well with RGA. If they get really awkward about the shocks then I still have the jig I used to cut mine, and would be happy to do yours (but you'd have to get 'em to me.)


Oli.

 

[herbie75]

Oli,

that is a very kind offer, thank you. I agree £2k is a lot, especially for what i want out of it!
I will keep you posted on what RGA say.

Thanks.

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: zcacogp

I wodner why they are re-indexing the rear beam - that's a big job

Because the KW V3 rear shocks are coilover with a spring then it's generally accepted the torsion bars have to be lowered so that the weight of the car can rest on the coilover springs properly. Without re-indexing the car can sit too high.

I'm sure that RPM have fitted kits to cars and not needed to re-index, but if this is the case then you cannot lower the car any more than standard (and most track people want to do this)

 

[herbie75]

The good news is that Bob at RGA looked at the paragon guide I emailed him and recognised the procedure for the koni inserts. He said has done it before, but it was a long time ago!! [8|]

He has struggled to match the prices of the parts from OPC Exeter, saying they were some 15-20% lower than the prices he has found on the Porsche system. Anyone know why Exeter Porsche seem to be cheaper on parts?

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: herbie75

Anyone know why Exeter Porsche seem to be cheaper on parts?

They like us []

It goes back a few years when one of our long time members who lives very close to them (Fen) was building a CS version of his 944 Turbo. He spent a lot of time with the parts manager sourcing bits for his car and in turn the manager would tell Fen when they had a surplus of old parts to fit our cars. In time lots of people started using them after recommendations so they got into the habit of snapping up old 944 bits that are hanging around on the Porsche system and offering them to us.

A few years ago they bought lots of Big Black brake callipers and lots of 968 CS anti roll bars and offered them at a very good price. It still stands that if you call them and mention the forum you will generally get a very good price on any part. When I stuffed my car into the crash barriers I bought a complete left hand side including both wings and sills from them for just over £1000