Think I'm about to buy - Some Q's needing answers HELP !

[mike220]

Evening all. Well, I think I may have found the car (providing I can answer a few of my own questions and come to the right figure with seller)

Okay, so it's an '89 'G' plate C4 with 96k on the clock. Rebuild done at 65k, and clutch done 2 weeks ago.

Firstly, where should the oil level gauge sit at various oil temps ? I've been out in the car today (seller drove - like a granny at all times ) once it eventually warmed up a bit, the oil level eventually came up, but wasn't sat at the expected 9 o'clock position ? Oil pressure was good (4 or 5 bar etc. when being driven) so I wasn't overly concerned. Where should this sit ? Does it need topping up ? Is the gauge reliable and if not how / when should I check to verify ?

Secondly - What size tyres should be fitted ? Car is wearing cup 2's and lowering springs (dampers are not too old). I forgot to check sizes before I left and it needs a set so I wanna get some prices etc. and can't rely on the seller to read of the wall as he didn't have a clue []

Can someone please post a pic of a 'good' rear spoiler curtain/bellows as a ref. for me Ta

What would you assume is a good price for the car ? Very subjective I know, but pls give your thoughts based on the details below :

Good bits:
89 C4
96k with rebuild 30k ago and brand new clutch and brakes on back
Good history
Cup 2's
teardrop mirrors
lowering springs
cup pipe

Bad bits:
Had plenty of paint to a good standard, but poor masking etc. spoils the job
Has had a bad repair on 1 rear arch which will need sorting
Undertray missing completely (I'd run without anyway, but he can't provide it with the car)
Needs 4 tyres
Needs sill plates lifting and some tidying done then refitting
some kerbing on alloys
faded rear lenses
poss broken spoiler curtain
front boot carpets are untidy with missing press studs etc.

Answers on a postcard please guys. I'm excited and scared all at the same time [8D]

Cheers,

Mike

 

[smallspeed]

See below, although there are other far more experienced 964 owners here who can probably give you better answers!..

ORIGINAL: mike220

Firstly, where should the oil level gauge sit at various oil temps ? I've been out in the car today (seller drove - like a granny at all times ) once it eventually warmed up a bit, the oil level eventually came up, but wasn't sat at the expected 9 o'clock position ? Oil pressure was good (4 or 5 bar etc. when being driven) so I wasn't overly concerned. Where should this sit ? Does it need topping up ? Is the gauge reliable and if not how / when should I check to verify ?

I only pay attention to mine once the car is warmed up and the thermostat is open.. in cold weather it takes a surprising amount of time for this to happen; a good 10 mins in the summer, probably double that or more at the moment

The ideal level is normally a bit above 1/2 way from memory, although I find mine sits around 8 oclock rather than 9 on the gauge which relates to just above 1/2 way up the dipstick.. This will vary from car to car, so its always worth checking the oil level on the dipstick and comparing it to the gauge until you get a feel for it.. Its also worth remembering sometimes they are duff; mine always reads full at the moment even though its around 1/2.. I think the sender is stuck or dead

ORIGINAL: mike220

Secondly - What size tyres should be fitted ? Car is wearing cup 2's and lowering springs (dampers are not too old). I forgot to check sizes before I left and it needs a set so I wanna get some prices etc. and can't rely on the seller to read of the wall as he didn't have a clue []

I dont know what the tyre size is for cup2's but if they are original wheels (and assuming they are similar to cup1's) the owner can read the width from the cast in numbers either side of the valve.. that would let you know what the widths are and then you can figure out the right width tyres from there; the ones on the car might not be correct in the first place..

ORIGINAL: mike220

Can someone please post a pic of a 'good' rear spoiler curtain/bellows as a ref. for me Ta

Check out this article here..

p-car spoiler DIY

..it might not show you what you need, however it will give you an idea where to look and what for..

ben

 

[mike220]

Thanks Ben. The oil level thing is what I think then. He didn't even get it up to full temp. I don't think, so inclined to ignore what I've seen today on that front. It was checked over generally by Statller 2 weeks ago when the clutch was fitted apparently. Has anyone had any dealings with them ? I will of course ring them on Monday to speak to whoever worked on the car to get an opinion on it etc.

Cheers, keep the points/info coming

Mike

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

Mike,

I can echo pretty much everything that Ben has said above. The thing about oil level is always the big question that new owners come up with because it is a major difference between the 911 and virtually any other car. The things to remember are that there is no link between oil level and oil pressure (other than there needs to be SOME oil in there!!!) because the 964 uses a dry sump oil system. As long as there is enough oil there to supply the needs of the engine it's enough. Bear in mind that the reason there is so much oil is partly to do with cooling as much as it's to do with lubrication.

The oil level gauge will rarely show ANYTHING until the oil thermostat opens. If you watch the gauge as the engine warms up you should notice that the temperature will rise, usually to about the second mark , and then, quite suddenly, fall back half a stop - THAT'S when the thermostat has opened. From that point on the oil level should show a readble level when the engine is idling (and on level ground). I usually make a point of checking when I stop at traffic lights or similar. Bear in mind that if the oil temperature rises even more so will the oil level - due to the thermal expansion of the oil. This is why it's important NOT to fill right up to the full mark.

The question regarding wheels and tyres needs a little more information as Ben suggested. The Cup 2 wheels are not 964 fitments - they were designed for the 993. Although they fit the 964 you'll need to know the width and offset to be sure about the tyre sizes needed. The chances are that they are 7J and 9J and could be 16" or 17" (or, rarely, even 18").

The only thing you ned to check with the spoiler curtain is that it's all in one piece!! They typically split in two and will need to be replaced if that's the case. If you can see daylight when the spoiler is up it's had it!!!

I noticed that you posted the same question on Rennlist and that's a very good forum - particularly for technical matters. You might also like to take a look at the forum at 911uk.com as well as the 964 FAQ section they have there. This is mostly UK-based and very useful for suppliers and recommendations etc.and you'll find the FAQ covers many of the points you asked. You'll also find many people from PCGB there too.

Make sure you come back and tell us more - preferably with pictures!!

Regards

Dave

 

[mike220]

Kicking myself for not taking pictures now Dave of the various bits. Much happier now my thoughts have been confirmed ref. the oil level situation. Like I said - as long as pressure was impeccable at all times then I wasn't gonna panic too much too early. Wheels were 17" I just forgot to check what width and aspect they were currently wearing. I have no reason to change sizes as the car rode well with 3 full size passengers down some pretty bad roads, with no rubbing etc.

Yeah guys on rennlist are v.good when it comes to actually solving some technical issues - I'm sure I'll be posting more on thee if/when I get this one haha []

I do have some pics of the car, so I'll post up a general shot for you in a sec.

Any thoughts on price given what you now know od the car ? (I appreciate it's hard to jusge without seeing 1st hand)

Mike

 

[mike220]

Hope these work :

]


Cheers,

Mike

 

[Alexander_Drobik]

Mike - a couple of thoughts which may help!



Okay, so it's an '89 'G' plate C4 with 96k on the clock. Rebuild done at 65k, and clutch done 2 weeks ago. was it a full rebuild or just the heads - probably the heads.If the heads worth checking with the folks who did it what their assessment of the rest of the engine was.

Firstly, where should the oil level gauge sit at various oil temps ?

Oil temp should be between the first and second mark - in these conditions it should be at the 8 o'clock marker (second indication). It may go slightly higher and then fall back - that is good as it means the front oil cooler has kicked in - make sure that the front offside wing is warm - that is where the cooler is.

Oil pressure should be all the way to the top when accelerating hard. It should be at approx 2 always.

Oil level should be checked with the engine running, the oil warm and via the dipstick (car on level ground). Whatever the dipstick says is what you have. The oil level sender is approximate but should show 3/4 full on idle dropping to empty when running.



I've been out in the car today (seller drove - like a granny at all times ) once it eventually warmed up a bit, the oil level eventually came up, but wasn't sat at the expected 9 o'clock position ? Oil pressure was good (4 or 5 bar etc. when being driven) so I wasn't overly concerned. Where should this sit ? Does it need topping up ? Is the gauge reliable and if not how / when should I check to verify ?

Secondly - What size tyres should be fitted ? Car is wearing cup 2's and lowering springs (dampers are not too old). I forgot to check sizes before I left and it needs a set so I wanna get some prices etc. and can't rely on the seller to read of the wall as he didn't have a clue

205/50/zr17 and 255/40/zr17.



Can someone please post a pic of a 'good' rear spoiler curtain/bellows as a ref. for me Ta

I don't have a picture - you can search on the web, but with the spoiler up you should see a plastic curtain without tears - if you have two halves then it is torn!


What would you assume is a good price for the car ? Very subjective I know, but pls give your thoughts based on the details below :

to be honest I would check the bodywork - a little worried by some of the below. A clean car in this condition would be £15k-£18k. Assume rhd. On what you are saying I would see this one at under £14k - the body issues need investigation - not because the odd ding hurts but because if it was done badly what else may be there. I would not buy until a good assessment on that one! Good luck.

 

[mike220]

Thanks Alex. Rebuild was 30k ago and consisted of the base seals (barrels to crankcase) and a full top end. It also had rings etc at the time too. Rebuild was done by Tony Greatorex in Stockport.

I think it could be a pretty good car with some enthusiast love and attention - The seller is just a walking chequebook, ad hasn't a clue unfortunately [:'(]

Cheers guys, any more thoughts on prices are welcome - as I think if the price is right, you may have a new one to the fold []

Mike

 

[smallspeed]

those look like 17" wheels from the picture, so sizes above are spot on; i have 7.5's and 9's on mine and the same size tyre, i think people run them on 7's and 8's too, so they are quite a versatile size []

depending on what tyre you're after prices are around 100 (front) and 150 (rear).. depending on who you speak to, you need to make sure you have N3 rated tyres. as i understand it, N specifies the testing that has been done on the tyre and for which manufacturer. N-rated tyres are "porsche approved" or tested to their standards. The 3 represents how developed or what revision the tyre is.. for example N1 would be the first revision of the tyre design, and when it was re-approved after changes, N2, then N3, etc..

Tyre choice is a massive discussion (like oil type/make) however i have p-zero rosso's on my car and i think they are quite a good "day to day" tyre, although I will probably change to pilot cup sports when all 4 need replacing (last time around I just needed new rears). I am also reading evo magazine closely, as mr meaden who writes for them is about to change to something all together different on his 964RS..

ben

 

[mike220]

Yeah I've just had confirmation from the seller that it's wearing :

215/45 fronts
255/40 rears

all 17" of course. Just got back from Costco too, a full set's gonna run me about £560 for Pilot Sports. Unfortunately they couldn't get the Pilot Sport 2's in them sizes ? Shame as I've been told they're a better tyre too

Mike

 

[smallspeed]

MPSC's are available in 205/50/17

 

[mike220]

Funny enough it was the rear's he said he could get on the system - didn't do them in 'N' rated ?

I was surprised too, they're usually pretty good

Mike

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: mike220

Thanks Alex. Rebuild was 30k ago and consisted of the base seals (barrels to crankcase) and a full top end. It also had rings etc at the time too. Rebuild was done by Tony Greatorex in Stockport.

I think it could be a pretty good car with some enthusiast love and attention - The seller is just a walking chequebook, ad hasn't a clue unfortunately [:'(]

Cheers guys, any more thoughts on prices are welcome - as I think if the price is right, you may have a new one to the fold []

Mike

I haven't used Tony but know some local PCGB members who use him. I've only heard good things about him so my guess is that the top end rebuild will have been done properly.

Not wanting to confuse you but this has just come up for sale and I guess it's very near you []

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/388447.htm

 

[mike220]

Looks like an excellent example Steve, I did see that earlier. A bit out of my price range though, and it doesn't have the extras I want - wheels/mirrors/suspension/exhaust etc. etc. which will upset the purists I know - but it's just how I like them to look, and would mean I'd have to spend a fair chunk on it after the purchase price.

I had heard of Tony Greatorex too, so assumed it would be a solid job. He did plenty of work on this car for the previous owner to the seller, so the guy obviously trusted him. May ring him tomorrow and ask how much £ for a PPI ? Just in case I can get the right price out of the seller [&:]

Mike

 

[Porker993]

PPI is the best idea yet. I had an '89 C4 for four years, and to say it had a few "issues" would be an understatement.

A full PPI would hopefully throw up any issues with notoriously fragile (and expensive to put right) 4 WD and braking system, as well as any outstanding engine/body work issues.

I would always check under the carpets - like most 911s, these cars leak like a seive, leading to rust long term.

Proceed with care - and adjust price accordingly. You need to find about any issues now, not after you get the car home, like I did. []

Having said all that, they are great cars if you get a good one. Just don't pay over the odds.

 

[mike220]

Thanks Mark - good advice. I've actually just got off the phone with the technician who did the clutch and rear brakes 2 weeks ago. he remembers the car well, and has just given me a full appraisal over the phone for nothing !! Proper nice guy, basically put me off paying him £100 to do the PPI and gave me the info anyway. Told me of some faults I hadn't picked up and said to use them to haggle with, but overall said he'd own it himself at the right money as it was one of the better one's he'd seen in a long time. Confirmed that there'd be no monster bills coming anytime soon. he drove it too (like it should be driven I imagine as he laughed when I said the owner drove it like a girl) and said engine and box were excellent and it drove / braked well.

Getting close to the dream guys . . . . . . . . time to talk money with the owner later today maybe ? [&:]

Mike

 

[Porker993]

Go for it [] you are armed with all the words of caution/wisdom we can muster

- let us know how you get on.

 

[mike220]

Thanks Mark I'll keep you all posted - the first shot has now been fired !!! []

 

[Steve Brookes]

ORIGINAL: mike220

Thanks Mark I'll keep you all posted - the first shot has now been fired !!! []

I hope it wasn't too low below the water line []

 

[polar964]

Can sense your excitement Mike !