Thinking of late 997 Turbo S
- Thread starter mnk303
- Start date
Agreed
mnk303
PCGB Member
Thank you Geoff and all
Maybe I should have kept the RS , but no axial lift meant a big pain in the butt.
Thank you Geoff and all, I decided in the end the car of purchase will have to have the following , Sound Exhaust, excitement , involvement , ability to use all year round, 50% of the decision for me must be the sound! hence now not the T S . Notice absolute performance is not listed , there are few cars I am looking at that are over 4.5 sec 0-60 so quick enough on our busy roads.
Maybe I should have kept the RS , but no axial lift meant a big pain in the butt.
Blimey Geoff, ever heard of sentences? [
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My dealer has (or had before Christmas) two 991 turbo S's which were sticking and there was £5k on the table. While that might have been tempting, there's no reason to believe the 991 turbo S depreciation will be any different from previous turbos and because the starting price is higher, the depreciation in £ terms will be correspondingly greater.
So, while I am really pleased others are enjoying the 991 turbo S, I don't envy them the likely depreciation though many will be rich enough not to care one jot.
So in answer to the OP's question, a low mileage 997.2 turbo S at half the price of a 991 turbo is likely to be a great buy.
The fact that the 991 GT3 is reportedly sold out while 991 turbo S's are hanging around should tell Porsche all they need to know about what the market wants.
]My dealer has (or had before Christmas) two 991 turbo S's which were sticking and there was £5k on the table. While that might have been tempting, there's no reason to believe the 991 turbo S depreciation will be any different from previous turbos and because the starting price is higher, the depreciation in £ terms will be correspondingly greater.
So, while I am really pleased others are enjoying the 991 turbo S, I don't envy them the likely depreciation though many will be rich enough not to care one jot.
So in answer to the OP's question, a low mileage 997.2 turbo S at half the price of a 991 turbo is likely to be a great buy.
The fact that the 991 GT3 is reportedly sold out while 991 turbo S's are hanging around should tell Porsche all they need to know about what the market wants.
Yes, there's a case for hard-edged sports cars; on the one hand, you have Porsche complaining that the sports car market is shrinking yet refusing to supply it with the types of car which might re-invigorate that market.
The idea also that there has to be blue sky between the Cayman and the cooking 911 is also nonsense. No one who is in the market for a Cayman R would give a 911 Carrera a second look, and nor should someone for whom motoring nirvana is that Carrera mind that there's a Cayman with attitude in the family.
The idea also that there has to be blue sky between the Cayman and the cooking 911 is also nonsense. No one who is in the market for a Cayman R would give a 911 Carrera a second look, and nor should someone for whom motoring nirvana is that Carrera mind that there's a Cayman with attitude in the family.
Despite their brilliance from an engineering point of view, I'm unable to buy into the PDK gearbox, I don't believe it offers the same driving experience as a manual gearbox hence my current and possibly last Porsche (unless I buy a second), a manual 997 Turbo Coupe.
As for reviews, Chris Harris did a great review of the new 991 turbo. Look it up on YouTube.
As for reviews, Chris Harris did a great review of the new 991 turbo. Look it up on YouTube.
The thing about Chris Harris is that it's easy to enthuse about a product if you don't have to deal with the loss of value.
Viewed in the isolated context of the car's performance, I've no doubt the car is very special even if that performance in increasingly inaccessible in everyday driving. Track work allows you to do that but wouldn't you then prefer something lighter?
Most of us have to see the car in a wider context and it's then, maybe, you might think the car doesn't look or feel special enough for the price and you are forced to confront the economic realities of a car which will halve in value over 4 years, less if you are driving it a lot. For some here, £75k is buttons, a few weeks income and they will not care. My own car has lost nearly £60k in the period and I'm not about to make the same mistake again.
Clearly, a pristine low mileage 997.2 turbo (S) which has already done its depreciating is well worth going for.
Viewed in the isolated context of the car's performance, I've no doubt the car is very special even if that performance in increasingly inaccessible in everyday driving. Track work allows you to do that but wouldn't you then prefer something lighter?
Most of us have to see the car in a wider context and it's then, maybe, you might think the car doesn't look or feel special enough for the price and you are forced to confront the economic realities of a car which will halve in value over 4 years, less if you are driving it a lot. For some here, £75k is buttons, a few weeks income and they will not care. My own car has lost nearly £60k in the period and I'm not about to make the same mistake again.
Clearly, a pristine low mileage 997.2 turbo (S) which has already done its depreciating is well worth going for.
mnk303
PCGB Member
I think Mark this is spot on, if I may add as well, my last Ferrari 430F1 brought new lost nearly as much, so I suppose it's the cost of most super car ownership. However at least Ferrari provide longer warranties than Porsche (some may say you will need it) . I like you Mark can not afford or wish to make the same mistake again.
A nicely depreciated used car will be winning the space in my garage , not sure though if it will be a used 458 or Porsche as yet so I am taking thinking time .
Personally I think the 911 turbo is and always will be a brilliant car, if you buy it against the right buying criteria. It is clearly loaded up as a GT muscle car (strictly speaking that is term for an American class of car but hopefully you know what I mean). GT/luxury spec means weight but turbocharging means effortless torque. Compared to a GT3 RS's or 458's party tricks it won't seem that special at all. Some cars are highly strung and others are laid back, whether that be driving experience, service intervals, running costs, reliability, looks etc, each separately having a value of desireability to different buyers.
Porsche is one of the most profitable car companies in the world and no doubt the profit on the turbo is as astounding as on their other models and manufacturing cost bears little relation to asking price. The criteria it ticks compared to other cars will influence their asking price more than the cost to manufacture I think. So is it worth as much as a Ferrari? Depends to whom but I definitely think so, for a criteria I haven't yet mentioned - how much use I'd get out it whilst owning it. Everyone is different though but for me that would be a considerable positive factor vs depreciation.
As for whether 991 turbo is sufficiently better than the 997 for the cost and whether its superiority is accessible I think is a skewed argument which is really down to whether the new car and what it brings is worth it to you. If Porsche was still selling the 997 turbo S but with a new engine upgrade and other new bits and put the price up to what the 991 costs, it would still be a decision about new vs used.
I guess the market segment for the car means that Porsche doesn't want to market the turbo on strictly limited numbers & a waiting list, but such is their profitability that they needn't concern themselves too much with the strength of residuals and oversupply[&o]. The piles of 981's are no doubt selling profitably as so called discounted demo cars - more profit in more units sold of an excess supply rather than selling fewer cars at list price[&o]
Martin, you bought a 981 not so long ago. How did that feel after owing the GT3 RS? I appreciate that they are entirely different cars.
Porsche is one of the most profitable car companies in the world and no doubt the profit on the turbo is as astounding as on their other models and manufacturing cost bears little relation to asking price. The criteria it ticks compared to other cars will influence their asking price more than the cost to manufacture I think. So is it worth as much as a Ferrari? Depends to whom but I definitely think so, for a criteria I haven't yet mentioned - how much use I'd get out it whilst owning it. Everyone is different though but for me that would be a considerable positive factor vs depreciation.
As for whether 991 turbo is sufficiently better than the 997 for the cost and whether its superiority is accessible I think is a skewed argument which is really down to whether the new car and what it brings is worth it to you. If Porsche was still selling the 997 turbo S but with a new engine upgrade and other new bits and put the price up to what the 991 costs, it would still be a decision about new vs used.
I guess the market segment for the car means that Porsche doesn't want to market the turbo on strictly limited numbers & a waiting list, but such is their profitability that they needn't concern themselves too much with the strength of residuals and oversupply[&o]. The piles of 981's are no doubt selling profitably as so called discounted demo cars - more profit in more units sold of an excess supply rather than selling fewer cars at list price[&o]
Martin, you bought a 981 not so long ago. How did that feel after owing the GT3 RS? I appreciate that they are entirely different cars.
mnk303
PCGB Member
I miss the RS and in someways wish I had not sold it, but it went for a £20k premium something I never had in my many years of car ownership.
I adore the 981s and feel its suits me 95% of the time, certainly best built Porsche I have owned and as quick as all my earlier Porsches (911) but I am not sure a convertible is me, sounds absurd as it's under 5sec car and I am formed one of the highest spec cars out there but I feel it's months are numbered . I am leaning towards a 458 Ferrari, I don't feel the TS has enough spirt and because of its cost it's making me look at other brands.
I am with Clive's comments on page one of these threads. The997 Turbo S is a fab car and is a bit more sporty/aggressive than the stock Turbo without the extra's.
Its a car that grows on you as you live with it.
It will cruise acceptably across a continent, do the autobahn stuff with distain and then get down and dirty on a pass or tight twisty road. There is nothing else out there with that breadth of abilities and character.
Thee is plenty of feedback once you. run them in, the exhaust noise does come into the cabin on sports mode like an angry growl when accelerating hard, there is steering wheel feedback BUT you have to hold the wheel lightly - its there. There is loads of feedback from the usual other places (Seat of pants for one) and it telegraphs limits quite clearly.
I have had two moment with mine that I doubt I could have matched in any other car. Following Garry on the EVO triangle where every one else had "dropped back a few minutes to admire the scenery" and a solo up the col de turini - the guide and GT2 were about 15 mins ahead and going for it, I caught them at the top just getting out of their cars having had the blast of my life and a whale of a time doing it. The other occasions here have not been quite so confident or on it. I have enjoyed the car immensely.
The car livens up after its oil changes and services and it takes at least 10k miles for the exhaust to loosen up and make a good noise. Mine's 22k miles and the exhaust note just gets better.
Problem is here Turbo S' are so highly tuned you need a good few thousand mile son them to get them to loosen up buy which stage most people have sold them and missed out.
As to 997 vs 991 - whichever I can afford is the answer. I am sure the 991 will be a cracking car to live with, once it's run in.
Its a car that grows on you as you live with it.
It will cruise acceptably across a continent, do the autobahn stuff with distain and then get down and dirty on a pass or tight twisty road. There is nothing else out there with that breadth of abilities and character.
Thee is plenty of feedback once you. run them in, the exhaust noise does come into the cabin on sports mode like an angry growl when accelerating hard, there is steering wheel feedback BUT you have to hold the wheel lightly - its there. There is loads of feedback from the usual other places (Seat of pants for one) and it telegraphs limits quite clearly.
I have had two moment with mine that I doubt I could have matched in any other car. Following Garry on the EVO triangle where every one else had "dropped back a few minutes to admire the scenery" and a solo up the col de turini - the guide and GT2 were about 15 mins ahead and going for it, I caught them at the top just getting out of their cars having had the blast of my life and a whale of a time doing it. The other occasions here have not been quite so confident or on it. I have enjoyed the car immensely.
The car livens up after its oil changes and services and it takes at least 10k miles for the exhaust to loosen up and make a good noise. Mine's 22k miles and the exhaust note just gets better.
Problem is here Turbo S' are so highly tuned you need a good few thousand mile son them to get them to loosen up buy which stage most people have sold them and missed out.
As to 997 vs 991 - whichever I can afford is the answer. I am sure the 991 will be a cracking car to live with, once it's run in.
That'd be my reason for getting one. For me it'd be a major advantage over other cars that might be more visceral but have a narrower focus and use.
Depends what else you have in the garage I suppose and how much use you want to get out of it. If you want a car for use most days and all seasons the turbo will more likely be better. If you have other cars for that, you May have more chance of happily living with say a GT3RS or 458 for a long time but with less usage as the day and type of journey more likely has to be right.
I wonder if the 991 GT3 is more versatile than the 997....
Yep the Ferrari looks and sounds like only an Italian could[]
I'm just saying I can understand your personal reasoning why the turbo S doesn't grab you "not enough spirit".
It's no GT3RS or 458 and likewise if they we're good at what the turbo is good at they'd be failing at what they're supposed to be good at.
Fat luxury GT and lithe race car can't be had in the same car and we choose which we prefer. They can both be very fast though[]
]I'm just saying I can understand your personal reasoning why the turbo S doesn't grab you "not enough spirit".
It's no GT3RS or 458 and likewise if they we're good at what the turbo is good at they'd be failing at what they're supposed to be good at.
Fat luxury GT and lithe race car can't be had in the same car and we choose which we prefer. They can both be very fast though[
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