This site will stop all arguments
- Thread starter Hilux
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Suffolk944
Moderator
A useful site but good luck on your hope for all arguments on the matter being brought to a close...[
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944 man
Active member
Nankang will certainly divide opinion. Plenty of people will rush to be first saying: 'Chinese ditch-finders!'; but how many of them will actually have driven on the things? Theyve faired quite well on the review site and personally I think that they make a reasonable track day tyre.
mik_ok
New member
It's such a tricky subject. [&:]
Most people are deluded when it comes to tyres- they spend several hundred £ and want to feel value for money - then convince themselves that they have done so when comparing brand new tyres with fully worn ones. Many make claims that their new tyres are the best thing sinced sliced bread when they've only driven 20miles on them, the surface of each is still covered in mould release and the tyres haven't yet worn to suit the camber of the corner it's been placed on. Nonsense.
Tests with a higher degree of objectivity are much better IMHO - the evo mag tyre tests have been very good. Even then there are questions however :
A goodyear F1 in 225/45/17 may work superbly on a 1700kg 5-series, but awfully on a 900kg Elise.
A goodyear F1 in 225/45/17 may be excellent - but the change in construction and tread etc may mean it's less than excellent in 255/35/19
A tyre that leads the way in wet braking tests when new may be worse than a competitor when they are both half worn.
And then there are personal opinions - I've been quite happy with Toyo T1R's on both the S2 and the RX8 despite their (relatively) soft sidewalls and the extra delay this brings to responses : they grip well, are predictable, and are fantastic at banishing a tendancy to tramline. Other drivers would be happy putting up with tramlining to maximise immediacy of response....
Most people are deluded when it comes to tyres- they spend several hundred £ and want to feel value for money - then convince themselves that they have done so when comparing brand new tyres with fully worn ones. Many make claims that their new tyres are the best thing sinced sliced bread when they've only driven 20miles on them, the surface of each is still covered in mould release and the tyres haven't yet worn to suit the camber of the corner it's been placed on. Nonsense.
Tests with a higher degree of objectivity are much better IMHO - the evo mag tyre tests have been very good. Even then there are questions however :
A goodyear F1 in 225/45/17 may work superbly on a 1700kg 5-series, but awfully on a 900kg Elise.
A goodyear F1 in 225/45/17 may be excellent - but the change in construction and tread etc may mean it's less than excellent in 255/35/19
A tyre that leads the way in wet braking tests when new may be worse than a competitor when they are both half worn.
And then there are personal opinions - I've been quite happy with Toyo T1R's on both the S2 and the RX8 despite their (relatively) soft sidewalls and the extra delay this brings to responses : they grip well, are predictable, and are fantastic at banishing a tendancy to tramline. Other drivers would be happy putting up with tramlining to maximise immediacy of response....
Neil Haughey
New member
So it looks like we all need to fit Hankook V12's then []
No seriously the only problem I have had with the Hankook RS-2's is the rubber compound, in every other respect they have been head and shoulders better then the Toyo T1-R for example. I just wish someone could combine the RS-2's construction and tread design with the T1-R rubber, the result would be the perfect tyre for our cars using the 16" sizes IMHO, and herein lies the rub. I don't think anyone makes the ideal tyre for our cars. I used to love the T1-S but the T1-R is a big step backwards, my 968 feels positively dangerous on those tyres its so loose. After swapping on the Hankooks the back end of the 968 now feels like its on rails.
]No seriously the only problem I have had with the Hankook RS-2's is the rubber compound, in every other respect they have been head and shoulders better then the Toyo T1-R for example. I just wish someone could combine the RS-2's construction and tread design with the T1-R rubber, the result would be the perfect tyre for our cars using the 16" sizes IMHO, and herein lies the rub. I don't think anyone makes the ideal tyre for our cars. I used to love the T1-S but the T1-R is a big step backwards, my 968 feels positively dangerous on those tyres its so loose. After swapping on the Hankooks the back end of the 968 now feels like its on rails.
Fat Albert
New member
Good report on the Falken 452s I have just put on the back of mine, interesting to read that they can take 1000-2000 miles to settle down. After the Maxxis rubbish they feel Brilliant already!
On the subject of tyres performing differently depending on the type of car, we had Michelin Pilot sports on the Wife's old Alfa 156 and they really worked well, I bought a SAAB 9 5 V6t that had the same tyres fitted and they were absolutely terrible, I changed them to Pirelli P7s and they transformed the car
On the subject of tyres performing differently depending on the type of car, we had Michelin Pilot sports on the Wife's old Alfa 156 and they really worked well, I bought a SAAB 9 5 V6t that had the same tyres fitted and they were absolutely terrible, I changed them to Pirelli P7s and they transformed the car
944 man
Active member
Yokohama Porsche-spec tyres were original equipment in 1990(IIRC: certainly they were on Carrera 2 & 4s), and they were better than Toyo Proxes. Perhaps that should have read: 'Toyo T1-Rs are the greatest tyres ever made []', or maybe: 'Toyo T1-Rs are the greatest tyres ever made, in my limited experience'?
]', or maybe: 'Toyo T1-Rs are the greatest tyres ever made, in my limited experience'?
Flick
New member
I'm not with you there:
Q) Has your Kia broken down in the last three years?
A) No
Q) How were any recalls handled?
A) It didn't have any recalls
Q) How was your warranty claims handled?
A) I didn't have any warranty claims
Q) How did you find the aftersales care?
A) I've only gone back for routine servincing, I was given a cup of coffee and a comfy chair then a £90 bill after an hour and went home.
Q) Overall how would you rate Kia?
A) Can't complain.
Lets face it Kia owners aren't discussing £1800 extended warranties in their o/c forums.
944 man
Active member
Jim, Im glad: and my old fella is more than happy with his XK-R and his supercharged XJ6 (pulls his Westfield well, apparently), but you know what I mean. Its a while since Ive heard the results of these surveys and Id avoid them now because theyre relatively meaningless, so Im not surprised that Im out of date.
My point is that theyre subjective and whilst they do show that Kia (or whatever) drivers are happier with their purchaes than Mercedes drivers (or whatever); it doesnt mean that the cars are better, only that the products meet their buyers expectations better... Expectations are subjective making it all relatively meaningless. []
My point is that theyre subjective and whilst they do show that Kia (or whatever) drivers are happier with their purchaes than Mercedes drivers (or whatever); it doesnt mean that the cars are better, only that the products meet their buyers expectations better... Expectations are subjective making it all relatively meaningless. [
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James_G
New member
In which case it's the manufacturers and their mismanagement of customer expectations that are at fault. Kia set their expectations and easily meet them, Mercedes (say) set theirs using a whole bunch of "lifestyle" advertising and then muck it up royally.
Anyway, it doesn't matter what your car cost new, anybody who's paid money for a car, especially in the current climate, should be treated like royalty.
Then there's the fact that Porsche only supply a 2yr warranty on new cars here in the UK means they should all be dragged outside and shot, but that's for a different thread, some other time.
Anyway, it doesn't matter what your car cost new, anybody who's paid money for a car, especially in the current climate, should be treated like royalty.
Then there's the fact that Porsche only supply a 2yr warranty on new cars here in the UK means they should all be dragged outside and shot, but that's for a different thread, some other time.
Hilux
New member
T1-R works for me on a 944 - those 968's must be worse than I thought! [
Funnily enough I`ve just bought some for the Golf [8D] £29 each [
] and its only about 820kgs wet so the `soft` sidewalls will be fine I`m sure if they can cope with 1G 944`s []Its interesting to see the Falkens doing so well. When new the block tread heats up (ask me how I know) and they lose grip readily but after a few hundred miles they really get going.
The Mk 1 Mk 2 Golf racing/track fraternity rate the T1-R`s up there just behind R888`s but better in the wet and slightly longer lasting and less susceptible to geometry issues/increased wear. Trouble is R888`s are not available at the moment.
Neil Haughey
New member
Funny how every internet Forum I can think of for almost any car I can think says the T1-R is the muts nuts, yet it consistently performs badly in group tests. Several years back Toyo made a great tyre that was very cheap, but as Simon said when the A008 was around it was widely accepted to be the best performance tyre from that part of the world. Now I believe the game has moved on and the T1-R is really only marginally better then the T1-S when cold but has much worse handling characteristics. Having said all that these Hankooks have a terrible rubber compound, its rock hard and takes ages to warm up, has hardly any grip at all when cold and when on track went off several laps after eventually getting hot enough to work well. However on the road this doesn't actually matter much as you will hardly ever pull high G forces but need predictable stable handling.
The best thing about tests such as those done by Autoexpress is they explode myths about how grippy different tyres are. They tend to find that the difference in G force pulling ultimate dry grip is very very small, but some tyres will just work better on their test vehicle and give better lap times. This is why one always has to ask if for example a tyre that works great on a Passat is really the best thing for a 944?
The best thing about tests such as those done by Autoexpress is they explode myths about how grippy different tyres are. They tend to find that the difference in G force pulling ultimate dry grip is very very small, but some tyres will just work better on their test vehicle and give better lap times. This is why one always has to ask if for example a tyre that works great on a Passat is really the best thing for a 944?
Hilux
New member
ALWAYS ask your peer group what they use, particularly the racing fraternity, learn from experience.
The tyre tests are always subjective and different drivers/cars temperatures surfaces etc make a big difference.
Interestingly the tests seem to be based on manufacturers tyre pressures whereas subtle pressure differences reap rewards with different tyres.
The tyre tests are always subjective and different drivers/cars temperatures surfaces etc make a big difference.
Interestingly the tests seem to be based on manufacturers tyre pressures whereas subtle pressure differences reap rewards with different tyres.
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