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Tial DPW

Just wanted to say how good the service was from Vic at Pauer Tuning in the USA. I ordered a Tial DPW from him a few weeks back, he advised if it will fit as my car is an early 220 turbo all his communication was great. When the item arrived very well packed I was amazed by the quality of the work in the wastegate and also the adapter plates. So just what to say he is worth an email if you're after a DPW and the price blows the price of Lindsey racing DPW away.

Anyway got it on this morning and the difference is amazing, the car comes on song so much faster and holds all the way to the red line. To be honest I had a bit of a moment coming off a roundabout as I wasn't expected the car to boost so soon. All 944's should have this done.
But I do have one question, on the instructions that came with the DPW it shows the top vac hose venting to atmosphere and the side vac hose connected to the banjo bolt via the MBC. If you look at the Lindsey racing web site it shows the MBC in a loop between the top and side vac hose. This seems a better way, just wonder how you guys have yours plumed in"¦.

http://www.lindseyracing.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LR&Category_Code=MBC-DUALPORT

Jobs for tomorrow is fit my 3bar fuel reg and also my high fuel chips.
 
My MBC is connected in a loop with the DPW, as per the LR site. From memory, the Tial connections are the opposite way round to the LR ones?
 
Well the whole unit sits on its side rather then upright. So the MBC should be in a loop then. Going to be good fun trying to get another line on the DPW now its on the car.[&o]
 
Not necessarily. It's correct the connections are the other way round on a TiAL. One senses the boost pressure and the other just needs to "see" atmospheric for the wastegate to work, but you'll only get whatever boost the spring is rated for. If / when you go electronic boost control (and I guess the MBC also though I skipped that stage) you connect to the other port as the EBC will supply pressure to that port also thus reducing the differential across the diaphragm and keeping the gate closed for longer, enabling control of boost above the pressure the spring alone will give. You really should have a low rate spring and a boost controller to work with it rather than a high rated spring as you can't control boost to less than the spring rating in any way. If your spring is giving the boost you want you won't gain anything by connecting to the second port, but you will not be able to control boost with the knob unless you do. You will only ever be able to add more boost unless you get a different spring.
 
When I first connected my Tial in dual port mode I noticed I could run as low as 0.7 bar max boost pressure although it has always been fitted with a 1.0 bar spring. When plugged in single port mode then yes it was impossible to run it at less than 1.0 bar.
 
The spring is rated to 0.95 so should be more then enougth. So are you saying it should be conected or not?? At the moment the car is fast enougth and the MBC is closed.
 
I wouldn't bother if you're happy. When you next slip down the slope a bit further will be soon enough [:D]
 
Yes you can either connect it up in single port mode with the top vent to atmosphere (on a Lindsey, side on a TiAL) You can also run it in dual port mode which is supposed to be better as the boost pressure also acts on the other side of the diaphragm and helps hold it shut. However when I did this with an MBC it made little real difference. Do this with an EBC and it really is the best way to go and you should be able to hold a dead flat boost curve with no drop off to the redline (if your turbocharger is up to it)
 
ORIGINAL: Fen That's weird.
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It is - I cannot understand it myself.
ORIGINAL: Diver944 However when I did this with an MBC it made little real difference.
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Same here. In my case I believe it even slightly increased lag, and the reason might be I fitted way too long piping between the MBC and the wastegate.
 
The MBC is only going to make a difference if you want to hold boost pressures significantly above that which the spring is rated for. The MBC allows pressure to build with the signal pressure (i.e. equal pressure to both sides of the diaphram) until the boost pressure achieves your set value which the MBC holds its output at. If your spring rating is very close to what you set your MBC to then you wont notice that much of a difference.
 
A couple more things, I am getting the overboost cut in I guess its because the turbo now seems to spin up a lot faster. Will check lines again for a leak. If I was to buy a EBC any pointers to look out for or makes? Just had a look and it all seems a bit fast and the furious style.[:D]
 
Are you still running stock chips? I was getting overboost cut in when I was running my DPW on stock chips. Stock chips are programmed to assume single port wastegate and the rate of boost rise is monitored by the KLR. If that rate is out of limits (which it can be with a DPW) i.e. boost is building too fast, then the KLR will assume you are going to overshoot the max boost and will kick in with overboost protection. You really need to change your chips. Also aftermarket chips will effectively disable the cycling valve. As the stock KLR will be commanding the cycling valve operation if it doesn't see things reacting to it's commands then overboost could also be initiated. The two EBC's that seem to be most common on our cars are the Greddy and the Apexi. Greddy is supposed to be a bit of a black art to set up (maybe Paul can comment on his experiences) but both seem to work fine once setup. But the MBC is also a very effective and simple device so unless you are struggling to hold boost at high RPM (as you will with stock turbos) or want the ability to programme boost different curves then you might as well be better off with an MBC.
 
Scott, I am on stock chips, due to be changed today and its holding boost all the way up about 1.8 ish on the dash from about 2500rpm to 6500rpm it dosent move. Sun coming out so looking forward to seeing the difference with the chips changed.[:D] Thanks also for the info on the EBC, to be honest I dont like them as with the MBC you can hide them under the bonnet but the EBC has to be on your dash and they all flash like big disco lights.
 
So, does the Tial bring the boost in at lower revs ?, I get around 2 bar (on the dash gauge) from around 3k rpm to 6k + on the standard wastegate, I'm wondering if I would gain much with the Tial.
 
Well you could put the EBC control panel in the glove box or something like that. The idea is that you set them up and just leave them so only need access to the control panel. I've got an Apexi and I plan to do a stealth install. I'm thinking about modifying the ashtray so it looks hidden until you lift off the ashtray top or something like that when I want to access the controls. MBC is a good piece of kit though. The in-dash gauge may not be sensitive enough to show your boost bleed at high RPM. You're best off with a proper mechanical gauge or even a rolling road test. On my car the boost peaks at 1 bar and immediately tails off linearly to about 0.8bar boost at 6500 rpm. That beed will be a combination of the turbo not being able to flow enough air to maintian boost pressure and a bit of boost bleed from the MBC. I'm expecting the EBC to hold max boot for maybe 500 - 1000 rpm before starting to bleed down as i've still got a stock turbo. The MBC is cheap so is sensible for a first step. You may be happy with what results you get with the MBC.
 
Glad the DPW has made a big difference to DHX Tom, sounds like she is now running bit more like her old self (when she also had a DPW installed but with after market chips.) My APEXi is actually what they call a limited edition which has a black housing and white numeral display so not at all "Fast and Furious". Think by limited edition they mean several tens of thousands of units so they should still be sourceable.
 
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