Tiptronic - slow changes

[Davedavies]

I have noticed that the transmission on my C4 tip always appears to be in too high a gear and seams reluctant to change down unless you floor the accelerator.
It loves 4th & 5th - I've never even seen it in 1st.

Can anyone tell me if this normal and whether ther eis anyway of resetting adaptives or relearning them.
I know with later ZF boxes (in other cars) you can relearn the gearchanges by carrying out a set process.

It has 69k on the clock now, I intend to change the fluid before winter, whilst I dont expect to find burnt or too dirty fluid, are there any thoughts whether this may improve things?

Thanks
Dave.

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

My advice would be to change the fluid NOW. Although the change interval is 96,000, I can guarantee that the fluid will be as black as your hat when you drain it. The tiptronic controller will only start the car in first gear when the engine is cold, and you may notice that the change-up speeds are higher. This is part of the warm-up cycle to get heat into the catalytic converters as soon as possible. When warm, it will start in second. However, if you press the accelerator pedal sharply (not to the point of hitting the kick-down switch) it should change to first for a quick getaway.

 

[Paul James]

Exactly what happened to me. When I first got the car, in Auto mode it got into 5th gear as fast as possible, but when I was stopped it kept itself in gear two. Not really happening any more (because it's never driven in anything but manual mode); however, it seems to change from gear one two two as quick as the Ferrari F1 tranny! So is a change of fluid reccommended?

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

ORIGINAL: Paul James So is a change of fluid reccommended?

As I said, the official recommendation is 96000 miles, but if it was me I would change it at 48k. It might be perfectly OK to leave it, but it will be black, I'm sure. Also, a fluid change only replaces about half the fluid, because you can't drain it all out.

 

[YvesD]

As I said, the official recommendation is 96000 miles, but if it was me I would change it at 48k. It might be perfectly OK to leave it, but it will be black, I'm sure.

As Richard says, get that sludge and swarf out of the tranny pronto ! It will be like a cement mixer full of bricks in there [] Also, I wonder if there is a software update from later cars which could be applied to speed up the changes ? When starting, if youre unsure whether its in 1st or not, just prod the wheel mounted tip switch down a gear to make sure. Yves

 

[beershark]

On the earlier Tips the Wheel switches only work when the gearstick is in the manual position. Mine is a 98R, not sure when this changed.

 

[beershark]

The tiptronic controller will only start the car in first gear when the engine is cold, and you may notice that the change-up speeds are higher. This is part of the warm-up cycle to get heat into the catalytic converters as soon as possible. When warm, it will start in second. However, if you press the accelerator pedal sharply (not to the point of hitting the kick-down switch) it should change to first for a quick getaway

Interesting and useful information as ever Richard....

 

[Davedavies]

Thanks for all the replies. Is it worth changing the filter in the bottom of the transmission when dropping the fluid? I intend to drop the sump off the assembly to as the gasket is wet - although no dripping. I dont mind changing filter if beneficial, but if a good soak and dry wil do instead, I don't want to keep rerplacing parts just for the sake of it. Thanks once again Dave.

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

Yes - definitely change the filter. Make sure you use the correct ATF too. Details are on the Technical Articles pages.

 

[minny]

Filter is about £30 +vat from the OPC and google Esso LT 71141. OPC sells a litre for £17.50 + vat but I got it off the net for about £70 for 2 gallons. You need about 4 litres or just a bit more for an oil and filter change. The actual change is quite involved but not impossible. There is a good DIY on Renntech

 

[Davedavies]

Thanks Minny, I have many good contacts at ZF so will probably blag one for free (or very little). Another messy job, but needs to be done. Cheers Dave.

 

[minny]

From ZF its LIifeGuardFluid5 that you need. Its the same Esso LT 71141 stuff. Only Esso make it.

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

It will just pick up more and more impurities. I am a firm believer in changing the oil more frequently than specified as the best form of preventative maintenance available. That applies to transmission oils and fluids too. You wouldn't believe the difference in the colour and clarity of new and 50,000mile old ATF. If you were to see it, you would realise how much gunk is circulating the system. Just my 2p's worth though.

 

[Rodney Naghar]

ORIGINAL: w852dh1 Richard, what is the impact of leaving the ATF change until the 96K mark, rather than doing it at 48K?

I have read about people leaving it for too long (ie over 60k) and they had the gearbox malfunctioning on them which ended up costing them a lot more than it should if you just changed the oil sooner.

 

[minny]

+1. I changed mine at 62k miles just after I got the car. The fluid was dark as your boot. The original fluid is a light yellowish in colour.

 

[Davedavies]

I've got a new transmission filter and sump gasket - oil change looming this weekend Any idea what the approx quantity of oil is that I need? I know that I can only get approx 50% of the oil out but have different suggestions to the amount of oil I actually need. Don't really want to change everything and find I haven't enough oil. People have suggestred anywhere between 2.5 litres and 5 litres. Thanks

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

The manual says the change quantity is "approximately 4.5 litres" for both the earlier ZF box and the later MB box.

 

[minny]

After changing the ATF and filter I poured the waste into a measuring container and got about 5 liters. This would tally with the fact I used 1 whole gallon and just a little more from the 2nd carton when refilling it. Although my orginal sump washer was damp I also spilt some when refilling so anything between 4 and 5 liters would be in the ball park.The instructions on Renntech tells you how to measure the ATF temperature to get the level spot on. Obviously anyone with Durametric or the PIWIS software would make it easier.

 

[Davedavies]

I've been to the local OPC this morning to get some oil, they want £180 for 20ltre drum. The 1ltre containers cuyrrently in stock appear to have the wrong oil inside ?? Having spoken to a friend at ZF, he advised me that any vehicle fitted with ZF 5HP26 transmission will have access to this oil. Land Rover, Jaguar or as I have found BMW. I have now sourced the oil from local BMW dealer for £14 per litre. They will decant the oil from their 20litre tin for me. If anyone is interesred, the BMW part number is 83-22-9-407-807 VW also appear to sell an equivelant, part number G-052-162-A2 - not been able to confirm whether this is correct stuff though please see article at: http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/46015 Dave

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

The 996 ZF transmission is the 5HP-19, as used by Audi and Skoda! I don't know how different it is to the 5HP-26. Couldn't you source the Esso ATF LT 71141 as shown on the approved oils thread in the TA section? I'm fairly sure Euro Car Parts would do it.