Menu toggle

Top Gear tonight

Guest

New member
What has Porsche done to Clarkson? I watched his demolition of the Cayman tonight on Top Gear and, although it was obviously (?) tongue in cheek I do think he was pretty unfair to what I think is a super looking car. James May seemed unimpressed with his colleague!I have recently taken delivery of a Boxster, with which I am delighted. I have been pxxxxx off by Clarkson's continual reference on previous programmes to the fact that anyone who buys a Boxster is only doing so because thay cannot afford a 911. No I bought a Boxster because I thought it light years better than similar monied competition. Oh and by the way I could not afford a 911!!!
 
ORIGINAL: Bickley

What has Porsche done to Clarkson? I watched his demolition of the Cayman tonight on Top Gear and, although it was obviously (?) tongue in cheek I do think he was pretty unfair to what I think is a super looking car. James May seemed unimpressed with his colleague!I have recently taken delivery of a Boxster, with which I am delighted. I have been pxxxxx off by Clarkson's continual reference on previous programs to the fact that anyone who buys a Boxster is only doing so because Thad cannot afford a 911. No I bought a Boxster because I thought it light years better than similar monied competition. Oh and by the way I could not afford a 911!!!

Don't let JC get to you; one of the main reason is pretty much majority of the crew have a Porsche, so a lot of the time it is a in-joke script, which a lot of viewers miss out... it is just entertainment, and now he seems even more extreme as Top Gear, after the re-launch, has become a truly mass market entertainment and they want the program to be more about the presenters (actors) and not just cars... Stig, celebrity laps, all a work of good scripts and program writers. The more it continues in that direction, the more it might upset car enthuiast and the car owners of the cars in question...

This episode was well written to make this apparent though i.e. with the director cutting him off; the director he was talking about was Richard Heeley (who doesn't necessarily director all the episodes); I had exchanged some emails with him some moons back and that is how I know he is the one who purchased the Cayman S... James May has just bought the new 987 Boxster S and Hamster has a Porsche 928 in his collections and I think he just got the 997 C2S... someone had also mentioned the Camera man had a Porsche too...
 
It's good television.

However I was listerning to JC and JM chatting around my car in the studio when they were re-filming programmes for the US, and I can assure you he likes GT3's and has a grudging respect for most Porkers. He was using a new Boxster at the time. He just seems to have a hang up about the type of people who buy them.

But you have to admit he had a point, while I'm seriously considering a Caymen S as an everyday car I'd need a window sticker made up to read 'my other cars a GT3'.

Kevin
 
Top Gear is first and foremost entertainment. Its serious car credentials are well down the list IMHO.[;)]

However I do think they are bang on about the cynical marketing of the Cayman. Can't believe that car doesn't have an LSD (and it's public knowledge that Walter Rohrl would like it with one, but the marketing dept said no).
 
As Kevin and Kish has stated a lot of it's very tongue in cheek and Richard has a lot more savy that to think there will be a premium on a Cayman.

However I have to say that JC hit the nail on the head several times last night. The most poignant being "This car is not as good as it could have been".

The looks are not to everyones liking but there is no excuse, other than marketing, for it not to have the 997 S lump and a limited slip diff.

I guess we'll have to wait for Ruf for that one.

JCB..
 
JC is obviously trying to get a rise of Porsche owners for entertainment but I think he's spot on with the idea of Porsche filling a gap with a compromised car. The Caymen is a logical progression from the Boxster and you can't fault them for creating a mid-engined coupe, but I don't think they had to compromise it's design, which judging by the Stig's lap, they did.
I reckon even if it was as good as a 911 it wouldn't damage the 911 market by much. There'll always be a queue of people looking to buy into the 911 heritage and then there's the other 50% of 911 owners who buy it because it's the more expensive Porsche and they'll continue to buy the most expensive car, as it's all about image.

 
I enjoyed it enormously, seeing the car driven hard. Clarkson was his usual self re Porsches but was also quite balanced in commenting on this specific car. I hope the name doesn't stick, though [:mad:]!

One of the points he made that did drive home was his comment about not owning a car that hadn't been developed to its maximum. Porsche are definitely censoring the Cayman's potential.
 
However I do think they are bang on about the cynical marketing of the Cayman. Can't believe that car doesn't have an LSD (and it's public knowledge that Walter Rohrl would like it with one, but the marketing dept said no).
997's do not have LSD either, unless you option the sports suspension.
 
ORIGINAL: carrera4boy

....didn't he say something about me being hung like a horse?

That was a fair gallop you had going on the A33 on Saturday lunchtime, I'll say that much! I tried to tail you for a bit in the Pug, but you were several furlongs ahead before long. Nice to see your car being exercised properly!
 
"Not developed to it's potential".

Hmmm, an interesting comment, although somewhat idealistic.

You could equally well say that the 997 C2 is not developed fully, since the GT3, shows that 400 bhp can easily be handled, or if it comes to it, that 500bhp plus is possible with a couple of turbos.
Does this mean that the 997C2 is under specced?
Does it mean that the 996TT was under specced since the GT2, or RUF/Gemballa/9ff, showed you could have more?
Is the Cayenne under developed since the turbo can handle 500bhp?

No car (aside from the McLaren F1 and and the Veyron) are developed without there being some budget or product positioning consideration.

Of course the Cayman could have, and could handle more power. But then so could the 924, 944 have handled more power.
The issue is that if you are going to have a range of vehicles, you need a range of price points and a range of performances.

If you were to argue that the Cayman should cost 70K, have LSD, be stripped out and have 400 bhp, then I would not argue as much (except to say that the GT3 would need to be improved, which leaves little room for the GT2).
But to pitch it at 40K and make it the fastest would be daft.

Lamborghini made sure the Gallardo is slower than the Murcielago (although not by much), AM have made sure the AMV8 is slower than the Vanquish (and I think DB9).

I think the real problem for Porsche is that they have cars in the same niche.
Ferrari have made sure their cars do not compete against each other.
I think the Cayman is an odd car to do from a marketing perspective. The 911 is not enough of a GT car to allow then to do a sports car alongside it.

The real test is whether it is the best car in it's segment. Is the Cayman better than the competition? Although I am not quite sure exactly what it is competing against.
This is the judge of whether it is specced correctly.

However, you also need to consider that the Cayman may not primarily be pitched at the UK market. They are producing global products for a global market. Some products may not be particularly applicable to certain markets.
 
"Not developed to it's potential".

Hmmm, an interesting comment, although somewhat idealistic.

Yes but in this case it's development to full potential requires almost nothing more than fitting an "off the shelf" engine and gearbox.

Nothing idealistic about that!

JCB..

 
Stuart - I think the distinction is between the feeling that the car could be developed further (eg Carrera vs GT3) if time and money were spent thinking of ways to improve it, as opposed to a feeling that they knew how to improve it, had the bits with which to do so, but deliberately decided to make it not as good.

It's like driving 25 miles and then reversing back for 5 miles. If you'd only driven 20 miles in the first place, the result would be the same but you'd feel less silly.

I think that's what JC meant. I've no idea if he is right or not.
 
ORIGINAL: JCB..

"Not developed to it's potential".

Hmmm, an interesting comment, although somewhat idealistic.

Yes but in this case it's development to full potential requires almost nothing more than fitting an "off the shelf" engine and gearbox.

Nothing idealistic about that!

JCB..

By the same token, you could then say they should take the Carrera GT engine and gearbox (off the shelf) and put it into the 911 or Boxster.
 
ORIGINAL: Michael Downing

Stuart - I think the distinction is between the feeling that the car could be developed further (eg Carrera vs GT3) if time and money were spent thinking of ways to improve it, as opposed to a feeling that they knew how to improve it, had the bits with which to do so, but deliberately decided to make it not as good.

But the same is true of the 997.
They could have made it better than it is, but decided not to, for marketing, cost and positioning reasons.
The could have used the ceramic clutch and lowered the engine, they could have given it more power, they could have given it double wishbones at the front, they could have raised the rev limiter and added titanium con rods, they could have fixed the RMS, they could have given it a bluetooth carkit, they could have used more composites to reduce the weight, etc.

They have no end of technology they could employ, but they choose not to, since they do not need to, to be competitive. And this is the test of the Cayman.
Forget what is on the shelf, does it stack up against the opposition?
 
ORIGINAL: david_968

ORIGINAL: carrera4boy

....didn't he say something about me being hung like a horse?



That was a fair gallop you had going on the A33 on Saturday lunchtime, I'll say that much! I tried to tail you for a bit in the Pug, but you were several furlongs ahead before long. Nice to see your car being exercised properly!

Hi Buddy,

I thought it was you. I was trying to convince you to get the 968 back by racing you home.[;)]

I've just fitted these special tyres that burn off red smoke when you pull away and they weren't working when i was racing you[:D]
Si
 
ORIGINAL: Stuart Martin

The real test is whether it is the best car in it's segment. Is the Cayman better than the competition? Although I am not quite sure exactly what it is competing against.
This is the judge of whether it is specced correctly.

The only true competition is the Z4M Coupe and BMW as far as I know are the only other (and first) company who have a true roadster (Z4) and then made a Coupe version of it (first go was the Z3M Coupe). Judging from Boxster S Vs Z4, Cayman S will kick @rse...
 
ORIGINAL: carrera4boy

ORIGINAL: david_968

ORIGINAL: carrera4boy

....didn't he say something about me being hung like a horse?



That was a fair gallop you had going on the A33 on Saturday lunchtime, I'll say that much! I tried to tail you for a bit in the Pug, but you were several furlongs ahead before long. Nice to see your car being exercised properly!

Hi Buddy,

I thought it was you. I was trying to convince you to get the 968 back by racing you home.[;)]

I've just fitted these special tyres that burn off red smoke when you pull away and they weren't working when i was racing you[:D]
Si

I think they were working; except it was white... thanks to you there was this white stuff all over the country over the weekend... [:)]
 
ORIGINAL: Michael Downing

Stuart - I think the distinction is between the feeling that the car could be developed further (eg Carrera vs GT3) if time and money were spent thinking of ways to improve it, as opposed to a feeling that they knew how to improve it, had the bits with which to do so, but deliberately decided to make it not as good.

It's like driving 25 miles and then reversing back for 5 miles. If you'd only driven 20 miles in the first place, the result would be the same but you'd feel less silly.

I think that's what JC meant. I've no idea if he is right or not.

Absolutely spot on....bit like editing a good movie of all the sex and bad violence. The Cayman could have been the best Porsche of all.

....and JC knows it

Caption Competition

Cayman9-vi.jpg
 

Posts made and opinions expressed are those of the individual forum members

Use of the Forum is subject to the Terms and Conditions

Disclaimer

The opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of the Club, who shall have no liability in respect of them or the accuracy of the content. The Club assumes no responsibility for any effects arising from errors or omissions.

Porsche Club Great Britain gives no warranties, guarantees or assurances and makes no representations or recommendations regarding any goods or services advertised on this site. It is the responsibility of visitors to satisfy themselves that goods and/or services supplied by any advertiser are bona fide and in no instance can the Porsche Club Great Britain be held responsible.

When responding to advertisements please ensure that you satisfy yourself of any applicable call charges on numbers not prefixed by usual "landline" STD Codes. Information can be obtained from the operator or the white pages. Before giving out ANY information regarding cars, or any other items for sale, please satisfy yourself that any potential purchaser is bona fide.

Directors of the Board of Porsche Club GB, Club Office Staff, Register Secretaries and Regional Organisers are often requested by Club members to provide information on matters connected with their cars and other matters referred to in the Club Rules. Such information, advice and assistance provided by such persons is given in good faith and is based on the personal experience and knowledge of the individual concerned.

Neither Porsche Club GB, nor any of the aforementioned, shall be under any liability in respect of any such information, advice or assistance given to members. Members are advised to consult qualified specialists for information, advice and assistance on matters connected with their cars at all times.

Back
Top