trackday car / fast road

[jamescharnley]

I am looking for a fast road / trackday car that I can have some fun with.

To date I have been looking at 968 clubsports but it has occured to me a 944 Turbo / S2 could give me similar performance for a lot less outlay ( even if the 968 is a better looking car [] )

Would a 944 need much modification to be suitable for the track?

Is a Turbo a potential money pit?

 

[Guest]

they are all potential money pits, you just have to set yourself a target and stick to it. A rair few of us get addicted to the boost and they quickly become very expensive cars, but with a few simple additions you can get a very quick car. The 944 is one of the best cars i've ever driven straight out of the box, and it can be again made better for relatively little outlay. The brakes, especially on the later cars (where the M030 was "standard") are incredible. Especially with the right pads!

However, buy a duff one, and they can get very pricey to put right...... But then thats true of all Porsches! []

 

[lali]

You will always want to go faster, and unfortunatly 'faster' =££££ [][]

But oh my god is it worth it!!!![]

 

[Big Dave]

I second Lalis comments....

Get an S2 though....So much more satisfying when you can drive the car well + chase / hound turbos ...[][][][][][][][].....................

 

[944psi]

Dave - have you done anything to your S2 to get some extra hp?

Phil

 

[Hilux]

Hi

Welcome (we hope) to 944 ownership.

I have driven many cars and built and tracked Westfields and Ginettas.

I researched (as you are) what `tin tops` make good solid track cars and concluded that a 944 fits the bill far better than most for not a lot of money.

I have found in the year that I have owned a 951 turbo with Mo30 suspension that I have to agree entirely with Andrews comments above. Superb cars, dynamically brilliant, predictable neutral handling and performance `out of the box` to rival (and beat) current supercars. The incremental gear times ie: overtaking are still amazing. £300 bhp is easily achievable for not a great deal of money and with very minor modifications required.

If you are looking then I suggest you consider buying one that has history but remember that it is the recent history that is important. Porsche OPC (dealer franchises) stamps in the service book ten years ago do not count for much as they are somewhat historic.

Mine had fastidious recent servicing and receipts for all manner of minor niggles from good Porsche independants (enthusiasts) that showed that it had been owned by enthusiastic owners who spent as required. Early OPC history followed by more recent patchy service records are to be avoided in my opinion as it shows the recent owners have not had the money to maintain them.

They will cost money (expect up to £1000 per year) BUT you have to offset the maintenance costs against minimal depreciation at the moment. Think however how much will you lose in depreciation alone on a newer car of similar performance. Basically, long term they are a good buy and I believe the Turbos will soon be appreciated for what fantastic cars they are.

Cheap classic insurance (mine covers me also for Porsche Owners Club organised track days []) and a wealth of advice on this and other forums ensures that you are not alone in enjoying these cars.

Whatever the outcome, good luck.

 

[Diver944]

Any standard S2 or Turbo will be more than suitable for a lot of track work in completely standard form. I did several dozen in my own car before giving in to the modification lark [8|]

As Big Dave says, you are much better off investing money in yourself and leaving the car standard, it will still deliver the goods, and your skills will be more than a match for the faster car driven poorly.

The beuaty of these cars is that you 'can' increase the stakes when you are ready, but until then the car will do whatever you need it to [] The first and biggest improvement you can make is a spare set of wheels with full race slicks. These will fit in the boot quite happily and I personally think are equivalent to an extra 100bhp in lap time.

 

[jamescharnley]

at this rate you might convince me I'm better off going for a turbo rather than a 968CS [][]

As a guide, what prices are good late turbos going for?

 

[sawood12]

It all depends upon whether you want to modify the car. If you think you'll want to modify the car then the 944 turbo is definately the way to go as already advised, however if the car is primarily intended for use as a trackday car/road plaything then I cannot thing why you would go for a 968. In terms of capability you are not getting more car - they have the same brakes and suspension as the S2 and early turbo's but you are potentially paying at least three or four times more for an equivalent condition car. Just think of the suspension and brake mods you could get for all that extra dosh. 968's are nice cars if you want one for any other reason than for thrashing one around a track but they are not the most cost effective way to trackday fun!! In any case the jury is still out on whether or not a 968 is better looking. They can look nice from some angles from behind, but has a face only her mother could love!!

Whichever car you go with be sure to buget an extra £1500 for maintenance items that you will probably need/want to do in the first year such as belts (and potentially cams for the S2) just to get the car upto tip top condition. Anyway whichever option you go for enjoy the shopping around experiance which is half the fun.

 

[lali]

Dave,
Dont forget the giant killing opportunities like hunting down GT3's through Stavelot and Blanchimont at Spa!! Roll on next week!!

All sillyness aside a £1K spent on improving your driving skills is worth more than your cars weight in modifications. I dont profess to being Ayrton Senna but having the right people teach me the right things has made the world of difference to the amount of enjoyment I now get from trackdays. And there is definatly something to be said for the grin factor when the 911 boys come and ask me what BHP my turbo is!! err... its an S2 and it runs about 215... []

 

[944Turbo]

Yes but if you have a turbo and can drive the 996T/GT3 owners wont speak to you anymore at trackdays.

There is a very nice high torque (370ft/lb from the rollers of truth) turbo for sale on pistonheads.

Tony

 

[Big Dave]

Phil
You could say ive done a "few" mods to the car....[][][]
Stuff like ,,FULLY rebuilt, lightening + balancing the engine,,[ EMC ] [ 245bhp][][][]
MAF kit...[Promax].
Stainless decat exhaust, [ Janspeed].
The engine now produces the power over a nice wide band , which is very user freindly....Not at all peaky like a turbo...[ Im not keen on Turbos..But everybody to there own..]
KW- V3 suspension, with stiffer springs.[] [ K300 ]
968 M030 ARBs
FULLY polybushed ....Well almost...
968 M030 hubs , spindles + callipers...
944turbo LSD + cooler...[]
17" cup 1,s with Mich pilot CUPS .[]

+ numerous other bits + bobs that ive probably forgotten to list...[][][][][]

Lali,,
Happy hunting m8...[][][] PS are you going to Bedford on the 27th May.????

 

[jamescharnley]

this is a difficult one for me, as generally I'm not a fan of Turbo charged motors & prefer the throttle response & nature of a N/A motor.

When test driving 968's I love the engine reponse & whilst they are quick, they are not that quick, so would I be right to think an S2 would feel slower?

 

[lali]

Dave,

if the car comes home from the ring next week then yes I'll be at bedford on the 27th.... are you going?

lali

 

[ClubRacer]

ORIGINAL: jamescharnley

I am looking for a fast road / trackday car that I can have some fun with.

To date I have been looking at 968 clubsports but it has occured to me a 944 Turbo / S2 could give me similar performance for a lot less outlay ( even if the 968 is a better looking car [] )

Would a 944 need much modification to be suitable for the track?

Is a Turbo a potential money pit?

I have been through this scenario and, yes, the 944 fits the bill nicely. However one of the perennial problems of a track day car is that (personally) I would want at least a roll cage, proper seats, harnesses, pads, race brake fluid and in the case of a 944 the MO30 kit. So, this all adds up to maybe £7k (?) - you experts will correct me here if necessary. This is assuming you start with a decent car because you will spend more if you buy a cheaper base car that needs a lot of maintenance work IMHO.

An ideal option would be to find a car that has all this work done then the guy hasn't used it much! Dedicated track cars can be very tricky to assess and value; especially on a car of this age.

I gave up and joined a track day car sharing club (www.track-club.com) - it has worked so well that I have decided to start racing again! If you are interested mail me or give Stephen Docherty a ring and mention me. Great thing is you get a terrific variety of track day machines.

Thats where we come full circle - the car I will be racing in the Open Series is.....

A 944 turbo!

I hope my musings have had some value for a fellow enthusiast.

 

[burrow01]

ORIGINAL: ClubRacer

I have been through this scenario and, yes, the 944 fits the bill nicely. However one of the perennial problems of a track day car is that (personally) I would want at least a roll cage, proper seats, harnesses, pads, race brake fluid and in the case of a 944 the MO30 kit. So, this all adds up to maybe £7k (?) - you experts will correct me here if necessary. This is assuming you start with a decent car because you will spend more if you buy a cheaper base car that needs a lot of maintenance work IMHO.

An ideal option would be to find a car that has all this work done then the guy hasn't used it much! Dedicated track cars can be very tricky to assess and value; especially on a car of this age.

Hi - Paul Deveyea has this for sale, if this would be something you would be interested in:

http://www.pauldevyea.co.uk/cars/944racecar/sales-detail.htm

It looked in great condition when I was there buying my 993

Pete

 

[sawood12]

[/quote]

I have been through this scenario and, yes, the 944 fits the bill nicely. However one of the perennial problems of a track day car is that (personally) I would want at least a roll cage, proper seats, harnesses, pads, race brake fluid and in the case of a 944 the MO30 kit. So, this all adds up to maybe £7k (?) - you experts will correct me here if necessary. This is assuming you start with a decent car because you will spend more if you buy a cheaper base car that needs a lot of maintenance work IMHO.

An ideal option would be to find a car that has all this work done then the guy hasn't used it much! Dedicated track cars can be very tricky to assess and value; especially on a car of this age.

I gave up and joined a track day car sharing club (www.track-club.com) - it has worked so well that I have decided to start racing again! If you are interested mail me or give Stephen Docherty a ring and mention me. Great thing is you get a terrific variety of track day machines.

Thats where we come full circle - the car I will be racing in the Open Series is.....

A 944 turbo!

I hope my musings have had some value for a fellow enthusiast.


[/quote]

If you definately want M030 then you are better off buying a car with it already fitted as it is very rare to find second hand - I've been looking for the past year and nothing has come up, and even then you will pay around £1k for a full kit and you wont know how old it is or how worn it is. You can buy brand new but the front shockers alone are £400 a side, then you've got the springs, top mounts, spindle/hub assembly, brake calipers and disks, ARB's rear torsion bars then rear shockers. Not much change out of £2k by the time your've got it fitted assuming you get 2nd hand brakes. So save yourself the headache and get a car with it fitted even if you pay a bit more for it.

Also don't be too put off by the prospect of turbo lag. There is no reason why turbo lag on 944's shouldn't become a thing of the past to all but the laziest of drivers. The latest generations of off-the-shelf chips married to a dual port wastegate and MAF kits will all but entirely irradicate the effects of turbo lag with boost coming in nice and strong in the low 2k rpm's, so you certainly wont get a wiff of lag on the track.

 

[jamescharnley]

out of interest, why did you go foe the S2 over either the turbo or 968?

I assume your caterham is even more fun ? []

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: jamescharnley

this is a difficult one for me, as generally I'm not a fan of Turbo charged motors & prefer the throttle response & nature of a N/A motor.

I used to be of exactly the same opinion and for a road car I would have to lean towards a crisp N/A car. However on track I really dont notice that I am in a Turbo because my foot is either hard to the floor on full boost, or hard to the floor on the brakes.

After a few laps of any circuit you will know which gear you should be in for a given corner and lag doesn't come in to the equation (even on a totally standard laggy '80s Turbo like ours [])

 

[Fen]

I totally agree with Paul on turbo lag - even with my car that doesn't make much boost until over 4k rpm with a stupidly big turbo the throttle response is almost as crisp as an NA car and you're never caught off-boost. an S2 doesn't give its best until 4k rpm also, remember. I'm not sure about the M030 etc. argument. That leans toward a later Turbo I'd say, but really it will likely be in need of a rebuild so all you're getting is the hubs. I certainly goes against a 968. I have said many, many times I don't understand why anyone would buy a 968 unless they absolutely have to have the looks. The car is basically a 944 S2 for twice the price. Better to buy an S2 and spend some (even all) the difference on the cage, harnesses, seats, suspension, brakes etc. Better still buy a 250 Turbo and benefit from tunability, hubs that can have bigger (and can take bigger still) brakes, LSD with oil cooler, bigger drive shafts, harder bushes etc. etc. To be fair they's all 10+ years old and pretty much all of them are likely to need a suspension rebuild and new bushes. That being the case an old, cheap, but straight one makes as much sense as the latest one available.