Trackday modifications?

[HowardB]

Hi - having enjoyed my 1987 2.5 Lux for a year, thought I'd have a bit of fun and make it a bit more "trackday", learning how to do the work myself.
Have been trying for find threads where people have done similar, for inspiration, but drawn a blank - can anyone point me in the right direction?
Cheers, Howard

 

[Swindon_Mick]

My suggested sequence of modifications as follows:

1) high temperature brake fluid - safety first!
2) grippier rubber - Toyo R888 or similar
3) racing seat / harness (with either harness bar or rear cage)
4) uprated suspension

You can of course add some lightness at any stage of the process - removing the rear seats / spare wheel won't cost a penny and will improve power / weight ratio and reduce the mass that the brakes and steering will have to fight against.

The other really important track day investment is driver training - in my experience the most cost effective way to reduce lap times!

Good luck

Mick

 

[Eldavo]

I'll tell you now that the better it is on track the worse it'll be as an everyday car. You also need to decided whether to make permanent or reversible modifications.

Personally, from a 2.5 base I'd strip as much weight out of the car as possible/practical. Then I'd focus on brakes first as already mentioned - drop in some Mintex M1144 pads or similar, some decent fluid and braided front hoses. I'd also rebuild the sliding calipers and make sure that they're working efficitly too. Pick up some thicker anti roll bars and poly bushes as well - don't buy the triangulation brackets from eBay!

Make sure that the car is tip top, serviced, not running hot and no fluid leaks, change the gearbox oil too. Then go have some fun, if you want to run semi-slick Trackday tyres then make sure your oil level is full or fit a trapdoor baffle in the sump due to the pickup being on one side only. Suspension mods or buckets and harnesses can come along as and when necessary.

Just to echo the above, driver training and then tyres are the mods that'll make you faster.

 

[chrisg]

I'd do all of the above but in stages, starting with ensuring the brakes are in tip top condition.

1. Strip and check all 4 x calipers
2. Replace 4 x rubber hoses with braided
3. Fit decent high temp brake fluid
4. Fit high temp pads, mintex 1144/55
5. Brake cooling ? Does you car have any ? easy fix = remove the rusted rattling back plates to the front discs.

6. cooling system check - is the rad up to it ? Are all the rubber hoses in good condition ? Pay specific attention not to the large easily accesible rad/water pump pipes but the small, curved narrow heater ones at the back of the engine into/out of the bulkhead.

7. Suspension - bare minimum is a refresh/ check over of ARB drop links front and rear and bushes. In particular the front drop links and hangers can rust through and become very weak - they can snap under high corner forces/ hitting kerbs

I'd do all of the above, BEFORE any fancy rubber - the more grip you have, yes the faster you'll go but the more stress you'll put on all the suspension and brake components. Nothing more frustrating than doing 10 laps at your first track day, only for a water hose to blow off and wreck your day....

Hope this helps,

Chris

 

[Ex Skyline]

Stick a great BIG TURBO on it.........!! (only joking ).

 

[HowardB]

Thanks very much for your replies!

I'll let you know how we get on. May have to ask a few technical questions as I go along!

 

[edh]

My thread is in my sig...
I reckon you can make some good mods and still keep it pretty usable on the road. Mine is quite track oriented, but still perfectly fine. Comfortable for long euro trips to Spa, Ring etc..

Agree with everything mentioned so far
Make sure it's in good mechanical order & go & see how you get on with a track day in standard spec.

A decent geo setup will also help - plenty of negative camber up front
Hotter cam & augtronic management gets you 190hp (Andy97 just might be selling these items..)

Glenn & Andy should have a thread on their 2.7 somewhere?

 

[Neil Haughey]

Definitely reliability first, going to a track only for the thing to let you down is very frustrating (been there). Geo and corner weighting also very important as it will allow you to fully exploit whatever the car and tyres gives. This is where the fun is IMHO and for that matter the satisfaction, don't underestimate just how much of a difference that can make, Kevin Eacock (EMC Motorsport) once said to me it was worth about 3 seconds a lap to get the cars setup honed. I didn't really understand what he meant until I got mine sorted then found it was like opening another door to a different place, that time (the 3 secs) comes from finding that what you thought were the limits are really just the start of things getting exciting!

 

[Andy97]

A decent geo setup will also help - plenty of negative camber up front
Hotter cam & augtronic management gets you 190hp (Andy97 just might be selling these items..)

indeed! Might just be easier to buy the whole car and swap an engine in to it. Already track focused with plenty of negative camber! Lowered, lightened and caged, and S2 ARB. The best handling car I have ever driven.

The down side is that it needs to be trailered to the track.

I may just end up swapping all the good bits off my 924S into an early 944 and selling/ scrapping the rest.

 

[edh]

Andy - might just be easier to put an S2 motor into the 924S? [] (although I guess that would rule it out of pretty much all race series?) You already have the 8V bellhousing, would work with augtronic ECU...

 

[white944]

Initially, get it in tip top condition maintenance wise, only spend extra on upgraded items if they need changing anyway, fit a harness, shed as much weight as possible and get some tuition.

 

[edh]

The standard 944 chassis is surprisingly good, even if it is way too soft for a circuit. I did some great trackdays in standard 924S's
Harness + standard seat is a bad idea. Not safe. 3 point belt with a bucket is better if you want to be held in tighter.

 

[Richair]

Reading through the above it seems like everyone has covered the main bits, but just to add a couple of points:

Having the car in tip top condition before you get to the track is key as experiencing a failure early on can ruin an expensive day! Driving a car flat out on a circuit will expose any weak points as you're pushing the components much harder than you ever would on the road, so brakes, cooling, lubrication (quality fully synthetic oil) and suspension condition are all key. Buy good brake pads, there's nothing more scary than brake fade when approaching a fast corner!! Plus brakes can be a hugely limiting factor to the amount of time you spend on track. Safety: as Ed's pointed out having a supportive seat makes a huge difference to how a car feels- I recently read a quote from a racing driver (I think it was Mark Webber in this month's Evo) that a driver feels 60% of what the car is doing through your arse. A car without good driver feedback isn't very safe to drive quickly. Plus its much safer if the worst happens and you can fit a harness to stop you sliding around (and again protect you should the worst happen), its one less potential distraction.

However don't get hooked up on making sure you build a full-on race car before going out on track for your first day as the weakest link is almost always the driver. You're much better off saving some money in mods early on and spending it on seat time. You can have a lot of fun in a well set up, reasonably standard car and due to it's shortcomings in suspension you will probably learn how to get faster more quickly.

 

[Andy97]

Andy - might just be easier to put an S2 motor into the 924S? (although I guess that would rule it out of pretty much all race series?) You already have the 8V bellhousing, would work with augtronic ECU...

Ed, I considered all the options but in the end I just didn't think it was cost effective because of the man hours involved (and I have to pay). I did think that someone with mechanical skills and time might buy the car as a project with all the rest of the race/ track prep done but no takers.. A shame really as it's great car for someone to start racing with.

with an S2 or 68 engine swap it's not eligible for CSCC stuff, except for their new open series, or possibly the Special Saloons and Modsports series (!) but it is eligible for the 750mc Roadsports series and their Club Enduro series. And it would be a good car there. Indeed there is already a 68 engine 24S racing in those series.

 

[Andy97]

By the way, Ed, a few of us have formed the Unofficial Castle Donington Motorracing Club and meet once a month for a beer and a natter. Let me know if you fancy joining in. Meeting tomorrow night either at the Jolly Sailor in Hemington, I think if wet, or possibly at the Classic Car night at the Coopers Arms in Weston on Trent if dry.

 

[Neil Haughey]

CG Lock works really well, I have used them in my Megane on track with its Recaro Trendline seats and the standard 3 point belt. I suspect that a CG lock with Porsche sports seats will provide similar levels of support. Personally I wouldn't consider bucket seats and harnesses in a 944 without a full cage, the cabin is to low and you end up sitting with your helmet very close to the roof, just think about what will happen if you crash and actually need the seat and harness to do their 'safety' job.

 

[Richair]

CG Lock works really well, I have used them in my Megane on track with its Recaro Trendline seats and the standard 3 point belt. I suspect that a CG lock with Porsche sports seats will provide similar levels of support. Personally I wouldn't consider bucket seats and harnesses in a 944 without a full cage, the cabin is to low and you end up sitting with your helmet very close to the roof, just think about what will happen if you crash and actually need the seat and harness to do their 'safety' job.

Not if you mount them properly; I should clarify I mean side mounted seats bolted to the floor using the six stock mounting points which are very robust. Coupled with a 4-point harness this is a lot safer than the stock seats and lap belt, with or without a CG lock.

But it I agree that base mounted seats will just end up perching the driver too high into the cabin which is probably less safe than the stock seats.

 

[edh]

CG Lock works really well, I have used them in my Megane on track with its Recaro Trendline seats and the standard 3 point belt. I suspect that a CG lock with Porsche sports seats will provide similar levels of support. Personally I wouldn't consider bucket seats and harnesses in a 944 without a full cage, the cabin is to low and you end up sitting with your helmet very close to the roof, just think about what will happen if you crash and actually need the seat and harness to do their 'safety' job.

Not if you mount them properly; I should clarify I mean side mounted seats bolted to the floor using the six stock mounting points which are very robust. Coupled with a 4-point harness this is a lot safer than the stock seats and lap belt, with or without a CG lock.

But it I agree that base mounted seats will just end up perching the driver too high into the cabin which is probably less safe than the stock seats.

Not sure I agree Rich.. My side mounted seats are almost on the floor at the back, but a 6ft driver will still have his head pretty close to the roof. You could get them a bit lower by tilting them back a bit more, but this is marginal.

The suggested weak point in the shell is the A-pillar, & a 3-point belt might help you avoid supporting the roof on your head.. My compromise is bucket seat & 3 point belt (no CG-lock) and I feel it holds me very well. Perfect for trackdays IMO and relatively easy to swap in/out for a standard seat if you wanted.

 

[Richair]

Maybe it's the mount (alloy component type) I used and the way I mounted it, but the base of my bucket seat is a fair bit lower than the stock Recaro sport seat it replaced, so my head sits lower in the car. With the stock seat my head would touch the sunroof, but now it's just about clear... But yes I agree there's not a lot of head room!! I'm changing to a head-restraint type seat when the car comes back from the cage install as this is something that concerns me.

I'm 5'11 btw, but I also have long legs so it may not be such an issue for me as it is you guys. I know I'd much sooner crash in a bucket seat with a harness though. But nobody wants to crash!!

 

[Neil Haughey]

I'm on 5'7 and a bit, the base of my Cobra seat is maybe 1/2 inch off the floor and the seat is tilted back. With my helmet on, the top of my helmet is level with the cage and if it had full headlining it would have been close to touching. This is a subject area covered many times but there is hard evidence out there of people being put in a wheel chair because they rolled a car with bucket seats but not a full cage and the roof came in (one I found was a Honda of some sort with a half cage). Every couple of years this subject comes up and there are always people that will try and convince themselves its OK, it used to be one of Simon's pet subjects but I think he got bored of having the same argument over and over. Rich don't take my word for it, discuss the subject area with Kevin Eacock and he will give chapter and verse on how he stopped selling half cages for this reason. If you don't have a cage you are much safer in a car with standard seats and 3 point belts. Head on collision for example if your wearing a harness better be using HANS or you will break your neck, 3 point belt no problem as you mass moves the torso slightly over the top belt and your torso moves forward quite a lot (why airbag steering wheels are a good idea). All of these systems are designed to work together.