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Trackday modifications?

edh said:
My compromise is bucket seat & 3 point belt (no CG-lock) and I feel it holds me very well. Perfect for trackdays IMO and relatively easy to swap in/out for a standard seat if you wanted.
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That is a very sound idea Ed, been thinking of doing similar in my Meg rather than repairing the drivers Recaro Trendline. Something like the Recaro Pole Position ABE would be ideal as the inside is shaped to allow a normal 3 point clip to sit neatly in the inner slot. Not cheap though.
 
I see what you're saying now Neil; the base of the stock seat is just made up of springs so allows you to sink through it should the worst happen, where as a bucket seat is solid material so it's your spine that will compress... Not nice. There's no way I'd use or advocate a half cage and I'm well aware of Kevin's views on this one!..

I still don't fully agree on the belts issue though, as any movement permitted to the body (I.E. the 'slack' and reaction time of a inertia reel belt) results in rapid acceleration of the torso forwards during the initial collision- the belts then have more work to do to slow you down and hence why as you say modern seat belts are designed to work with an airbag for a more controlled deceleration of the body. Air bags are there to deal with the drawbacks of the 3-point inertia systems, which is compromised in terms of safety but has to suit day-to-day comfort requirements of a road car. A properly tightened harness will prevent/reduce that initial rapid acceleration of the body and will therefore has less work to do to keep you in place. But the drawback of course being that the torso will be held more firmly and hence more energy will be transferred to the neck and hence why we're now using HANS. A roll cage has little influence on this however, with exception to better alignment and shorter lengths of the harness belts from the harness bar as opposed to using the rear lap belt mounting points which increased the risk of the rapid acceleration mentioned above. But then you can't have a harness without a bucket seat so we're back to point one...

I've taken us off on a bit of a tangent sorry, but it's an interesting conversation nonetheless! [:)] Sorry for recovering old ground...

Rich
 
No apologies needed Rich and I agree 100% with what you are saying there about how the different belt systems work so not sure if there is any disagreement.

 
Richair said:
I still don't fully agree on the belts issue though, as any movement permitted to the body (I.E. the 'slack' and reaction time of a inertia reel belt) results in rapid acceleration of the torso forwards during the initial collision- the belts then have more work to do to slow you down and hence why as you say modern seat belts are designed to work with an airbag for a more controlled deceleration of the body. Air bags are there to deal with the drawbacks of the 3-point inertia systems, which is compromised in terms of safety but has to suit day-to-day comfort requirements of a road car.
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In another circumstance this compliance can save you. Crashing is a lottery. A reasonable compromise would be a reclining Recaro seat, but I would only use a seat like this on track with a main hoop cross bar which will prevent collapse in the event of an accident.

Of course, you now have a rollcage which you have to clear with your head - far from easy.
 
No worries Neil, we're on the same page now then!

Tell me about it Simon; I spent all winter debating what cage to go for due to the clearance issue. Having spoken with all the usual suspects I eventually decided that a bespoke install is the only way to get a sensible level of headroom clearance so hence the car is currently with Nick at Nickson Motorsport for a custom job. This was of extra concern to me as I will occasionally use the car on the road so I need it as safe as possible (I'll also be fitting head restraint seats). Not ideal I know, but Nick is well aware of my requirements so is building a cage as close to the shell as possible so it should provide a sensible level of clearance and certainly more than the 'off the peg' cages. Any way I've taken us further off topic now!..
 
Nick Jackson served his apprenticeship at Gartrac, didn't he? Should be, you know, alright... [:D]

Your shape makes a massive difference too. Im quite a bit taller than Neil, but our torsos must be a similar length because I struggle to clear the roof in a helmet too, no matter what I do.

Because of my longer legs though, my head/helmet is in a completely different part of the cabin and I find this beneficial. It also means that I can use a car with the front ROPS section removed (or a Rollcentre rear without the hangers, which'd be far better) without issue. KE might disagree, but ask him about the worth of any bolt-in cage... His reasons are sometimes spurious too, for example: "replacing glass in race cars doesn't make them faster". I hear: "you cant polish PC so it doesn't look as smart".
 
It looks fine, the trick is to use that soft blue workshop paper and cleaning alcohol (isopropyl alcohol) mixed into water sprayed onto the paper to make it wet. In my case I found an old bottle of lens cleaner for the isopropyl alcohol. I reckon that 99% of the ones that end up looking bad are due to getting wrecked by using the wrong cleaning materials and scratching the hell out of the stuff.

Anything that takes weight out of these cars will make them faster its just a pain doing it in a way that keeps the distribution nice as its easier to get weight out of the back and middle than the front, same problem for pretty much all tin tops. Drop glass in a 944 is really heavy as well.
 
I need a 5l container of Polywatch! Brilliant on Rolex Oysterdate crystals, Heuer Monete Carlo crystals and polycarbonate rear windows. [:D]
 
Yes Nick served his apprenticeship at Gartrac so he knows his stuff! He's a true perfectionist and he's a genuine 924/44 enthusiast which helps. It only took one conversation with him to know I'd found the right person for the job, he was really keen to talk about my requirements for the car and the install. Nothing is too much trouble and his work is up there with the best in the business. He's starting my install next week so I'll start a thread with some photos when they come through [;)]

I did go to see EMC and I had a good chat with Kevin and Alex and I got to hear first hand all of their usual gripes, including poly windows and bolt in cages!.. Whilst they've built and prepared many successful cars I came to the conclusion that they weren't the right people for me though.

It's surprising how different we all are; my racing partner and I are both the same height, but I find in his CTR my legs are really cramped and he feels stretched out in my car. Fortunately the differences aren't too different though so we manage ok. I don't know how teams with drivers of very different heights manage this issue, it must be a right pain!!
 
Definitely. I wish I could have done some racing with Ben D though, he got in my car and felt the position was perfect so it can happen but I guess must be a rare thing.
 
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