Trials and tribulations of a Porsche tuner..

[zcacogp]

Roger,

The vehicle was 100% standard and in excellent mechanical condition. I can attest with complete certainty that the ECU was unmapped (although the chip has since been changed). I can't remember the torque figure was although the printout is in the car's history file.

It's not uncommon for a well-maintained and fully run in car to produce more power than the manufacturer's figures claim, even if the manufacturer is honest with the figures.


Oli.

 

[PSH]

If I have the right car torque was a little higher than BHP and not a bad graph too... http://www.cannell.co.uk/images/Dyno_Graphs/F614NMY_TQ.jpg Rick used to do a pretty thorough job listing the cars, alas not all of the graphs are shown, mine is most certainly very outdated...

Pete

 

[blade7]

I've read reports that Porsche and BMW used to state the minimum output their engines made.

 

[Eldavo]

I've read reports that Porsche and BMW used to state the minimum output their engines made.

Yup - I had a 2.0tdi 140bhp Audi A3 about 10 years ago that dynoed at 154bhp on a conservative dyno.

 

[blade7]

My BMW S1000RR certainly feels stronger with a few 1000 miles on it than it did after I'd just run it in.

 

[PSH]

I have seen it quoted in various road tests that Porsche always underate their cars performance figures, which is why you'll see better figures recorded in road tests than that stated by the manufacturer

 

[924Srr27l]

Roger,
The vehicle was 100% standard and in excellent mechanical condition. I can attest with complete certainty that the ECU was unmapped (although the chip has since been changed). I can't remember the torque figure was although the printout is in the car's history file.
It's not uncommon for a well-maintained and fully run in car to produce more power than the manufacturer's figures claim, even if the manufacturer is honest with the figures.
Oli.

It is a good one then as I suggested, there are people's car's on that list that are modified but 10% less power than your "Standard car".
I also draw information over many years from many reports & articles.
One from the editor of 911 & Porsche world who has a 944 2.5 8v and had it dyno'ed at 144bhp (and not 163) and also after
many different components fitted from Augment Automotive who have ran up lots of car's on Dyno's and also reported many are down on power
from factory figures, but then this is not surprising due to age and use, and also lack of use etc...

I wouldn't call or expect the majority of any engines (many decades old and thousands of miles) to be classed as fully run in, but quite past it's best.

I've not FULLY run my engine in yet, Lindsey Racing suggested at least 4000 miles before changing the Mineral Oil to a semi or fully synthetic.

R

 

[924Srr27l]

If budget is no issue, it would be possible to have aluminium stub axle assemblies made for unspring weight reductions, but that would not help with the wheel gyroscopic rotating mass problem, but on that subject you could remove a kg from the middle of the wheel and it would not make as much difference as choosing a tyre which had a fraction of the reduced weight with gyroscopic effect, but would make more of a difference to unsprung mass, which many people confuse the difference in performance of.

Jon, Have you made Aluminium Stubs before ? how wild are the costs likely to be ?

The Steel stubs weigh 3.3kg each

I'm also looking for Strut tubes in a lighter Steel design or Aluminium? to accept a stock Insert
(Bilstein / Koni/ Sachs etc..)

Threaded body for adjustable springplatforms, no Elongated bracket
as I'll adjust castor and Camber from the top mount.

I can get readily get 2.5 ID Race coil top
and bottom platforms from TAS / Compbrake which they class as Bilstein thread

R

 

[924Srr27l]

BUMP.....where are you Jon?

If budget is no issue, it would be possible to have aluminium stub axle assemblies made for unspring weight reductions, but that would not help with the wheel gyroscopic rotating mass problem, but on that subject you could remove a kg from the middle of the wheel and it would not make as much difference as choosing a tyre which had a fraction of the reduced weight with gyroscopic effect, but would make more of a difference to unsprung mass, which many people confuse the difference in performance of.

Jon, Have you made Aluminium Stubs before ? how wild are the costs likely to be ?

The Steel stubs weigh 3.3kg each

I'm also looking for Strut tubes in a lighter Steel design or Aluminium? to accept a stock Insert
(Bilstein / Koni/ Sachs etc..)

Threaded body for adjustable springplatforms, no Elongated bracket
as I'll adjust castor and Camber from the top mount.

I can get readily get 2.5 ID Race coil top
and bottom platforms from TAS / Compbrake which they class as Bilstein thread

R

 

[924Srr27l]

double BUMP (Last try).....where are you Jon?

If budget is no issue, it would be possible to have aluminium stub axle assemblies made for unspring weight reductions, but that would not help with the wheel gyroscopic rotating mass problem, but on that subject you could remove a kg from the middle of the wheel and it would not make as much difference as choosing a tyre which had a fraction of the reduced weight with gyroscopic effect, but would make more of a difference to unsprung mass, which many people confuse the difference in performance of.

Jon, Have you made Aluminium Stubs before ? how wild are the costs likely to be ?

The Steel stubs weigh 3.3kg each

I'm also looking for Strut tubes in a lighter Steel design or Aluminium? to accept a stock Insert
(Bilstein / Koni/ Sachs etc..)

Threaded body for adjustable springplatforms, no Elongated bracket
as I'll adjust castor and Camber from the top mount.

I can get readily get 2.5 ID Race coil top
and bottom platforms from TAS / Compbrake which they class as Bilstein thread

R

 

[DavidL]

You could always give him a ring.
http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk/

 

[DavidL]

You could always give him a ring.
http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk/

 

[924Srr27l]

You could always give him a ring.
http://www.jmgporsche.co.uk/

Yeah ! i thought having seen many extensive and in-depth lengthy replies on this specific "Trials and tribulations of a tuner"
thread previously it would be a good subject to discuss publicly and would of been replied to at length etc...maybe he's on Holiday?

The phone is becoming a thing of the past these days! lol

R

 

[Indi9xx]

Using a stock insert in a strut is always going to be heavy.. Probably more heavy than a dedicated coil over shock.

Aluminium stub axles are bloody expensive to have made, I had the last pair I needed made by a chap at Penske when they were at Poole just along the road from me, the same chaps who designed my gear linkage bits and the aluminium hubs (and about everything else) in the Porsche ALMS / LMP spyders, so know their stuff.. but now they are fragmented all over the UK working for F1 teams since Penske closed the UK side of their business a few years back.

Back then you would have been looking at about £2k per pair, with the hubs fabricated from aluminium plate, cad designed, laser cut and tig welded together with a billet section for the spindle to screw into, as per the Spyder hubs, this price was a bit of a favour too, but called in homers from several people there, from designers, machinists and welder, then stress tested in their lab, so actually probably accounted for about ten different people getting a couple of hundred pounds each for their time out of hours!

Last set were for a race car with money no object, but soon afterwards hit the armco at brands hatch in a 750 motor club roadsports series crash, no idea what happened to the hubs, although I still have some parts of the car I bought from the owner.

Aluminium hubs are a good idea, but expensive, unless you retrofit something already out there, such as (for example) a boxster stub axle, which could then mean you could retrofit the shock from a coil over 996 model, boxster hub, disk, wheel bearing etc etc.

A lot of work, but aluminium has other benefits, especially if you do not go too light, such as its capacity to absorb heat, such as with the brakes.. But that is another thing altogether with the lengths you can go to to help components become heat sinks for the brakes.

 

[924Srr27l]

Ah there you are, thanks for the rely

Using a stock insert in a strut is always going to be heavy.. Probably more heavy than a dedicated coil over shock.
Ok, I think the Bilstein Insert is lighter than the steel strut? So if I can have a Strut casing made from Aluminium this will
reduce the unsprung weight. Intrax , Ohlins will make me dedicated shocks to spec but they are 3-5K.

For now I want to try a lighter Strut body with a Billy Insert and some lower poundage Hyperco Springs.

Aluminium stub axles are bloody expensive to have made, I had the last pair I needed made by a chap at Penske when they were at Poole just along the road from me, the same chaps who designed my gear linkage bits and the aluminium hubs (and about everything else) in the Porsche ALMS / LMP spyders, so know their stuff.. but now they are fragmented all over the UK working for F1 teams since Penske closed the UK side of their business a few years back.

Back then you would have been looking at about £2k per pair, with the hubs fabricated from aluminium plate, cad designed, laser cut and tig welded together with a billet section for the spindle to screw into, as per the Spyder hubs, this price was a bit of a favour too, but called in homers from several people there, from designers, machinists and welder, then stress tested in their lab, so actually probably accounted for about ten different people getting a couple of hundred pounds each for their time out of hours!
Ok, that's silly money then I'll forget that idea.
Last set were for a race car with money no object, but soon afterwards hit the armco at brands hatch in a 750 motor club roadsports series crash, no idea what happened to the hubs, although I still have some parts of the car I bought from the owner.

Aluminium hubs are a good idea, but expensive, unless you retrofit something already out there, such as (for example) a boxster stub axle, which could then mean you could retrofit the shock from a coil over 996 model, boxster hub, disk, wheel bearing etc etc.
I thought the stock Hubs were Aluminium anyway?

A lot of work, but aluminium has other benefits, especially if you do not go too light, such as its capacity to absorb heat, such as with the brakes.. But that is another thing altogether with the lengths you can go to to help components become heat sinks for the brakes.

 

[924Srr27l]

Talking of Front Hubs,

Do you know if the 924S/ 924 Turbo & Early 944 (all pre ABS) Hub & Disc arrangement is lighter or heavier
than the later type?

The early type Hub is aluminium and the Brake disc ID large as it bolts to the Hub, the later type Hub also looks Aluminium but the
Disc fits over the studs I think? and hence the discs must be heavier than the early type as the central hole is smaller (More Iron)

The Boxster Large Hub and stock clamp you mentioned doesn't look that lightweight?

R